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Giving the arcane gish an identity.
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<blockquote data-quote="Levistus's_Leviathan" data-source="post: 8332653" data-attributes="member: 7023887"><p>Literally the only thing that separates the three Arcane Full-Casters (Full-Caster equivalent for the Warlock) is theme. Sorcerers get their power innately, either being born with it or being magically altered sometime while alive. Warlocks get their power from making a pact with a powerful, magical entity/creature. Wizards get their power from studying arcane magic and figuring out how it works. They only exist as different classes because they have different themes. The different mechanics would not exist in the first place if the flavor text didn't exist. </p><p></p><p>Making sorcerers use CON instead of CHA for their spellcasting ability would at least cement the idea that Sorcerers are innate casters and Warlocks are bargainers that had to sign/make a contract/deal to get their magic. That wouldn't make the theme a ton different, but it would at least make the mechanics match the theme. </p><p></p><p>Barbarians don't get Cunning Action and have to focus on melee weapons, while rogues have to focus on Finesse/ranged weapons and have way less HP/ability to take a hit than Barbarians. Yes, they can be roleplayed similarly, but they are played in distinct ways and the mechanics influence how the characters are roleplayed. </p><p></p><p>You quite literally said "mechanics don't influence roleplaying" and moved the goalposts to "well, except for spellcasters, because that's different". </p><p></p><p>1) It is not your whole character identity, but it is your core mechanical identity. Race, background, feats, that's all just extras that you add to your character idea to build onto it. There's a reason classes are the most mechanics-heavy of the 3 defining character-building options (race, class, background). </p><p></p><p>2) No, they're not. ASIs are class features. Feats aren't. They're optional, ASIs aren't. Variant humans are also optional, as are Custom Lineages, as is made quite clear in their text. Feats are optional, classes aren't (yes, DMs can exclude certain classes, but the class system as a whole is a core part of 5e that cannot be taken out without completely changing the game, while feats can). </p><p></p><p>Yes, "something" does. Read the Bladesong feature, please. It cannot be activated while you're wearing medium/heavy armor or a shield, and you cannot wield two-handed weapons (or versatile weapons with two-hands) while using Bladesong. They are quite literally incompatible RAW. That's one of my major complaints with the "just play a bladesinger!" argument, because the Bladesinger heavily restricts the possible themes that a true, complete Arcane Gish class/subclass should be able to use (medium/heavy armor, shields, two-handed weapons, etc). </p><p></p><p>I addressed all of this above. Again, read Bladesong to see why all of this is wrong. </p><p></p><p>Tavern Brawler a) doesn't turn a Bladesinger into the Arcane Gish that we want, and b) even if it did, it would take a feat to do so. Paladins don't require feats to be paladins, so neither should Stabnerds. </p><p></p><p>Thank you so very much for telling me that I didn't think about my character build enough. That truly means a lot. </p><p></p><p>Please do mind the causticity, though I do feel that it's warranted. It is quite rude to say "if you aren't satisfied with the options available to you, it's because you did it wrong!", and I very much do not appreciate that and will ask you to never do that again to me or anyone else in the future. </p><p></p><p>I detailed why Bladesingers don't work (and explained why they didn't work how you thought they did). I detailed why Eldritch Knights don't work (largely because of them being restricted to only 4th level spells, them automatically gaining cantrips, even though Rangers and Paladins don't, them being restricted to basically just two schools of magic from the Wizard spell list, and they can't prepare spells the way that a true practitioner of merging spell and sword should be able to (in my mind, anyway), and they're not at all good at merging spells with swords in any form (and no, just spamming Shadow-Blade and GFB/BB doesn't count). </p><p></p><p>I can't play a mediumly-armored Elf that puts a lightning bolt into a scimitar that is released when the spell hits, or a Dwarf with a dwarven thrower that releases a fireball when it hits a giant in the face, or anything else that screams "merging arcane spell and weapon with each other".</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Levistus's_Leviathan, post: 8332653, member: 7023887"] Literally the only thing that separates the three Arcane Full-Casters (Full-Caster equivalent for the Warlock) is theme. Sorcerers get their power innately, either being born with it or being magically altered sometime while alive. Warlocks get their power from making a pact with a powerful, magical entity/creature. Wizards get their power from studying arcane magic and figuring out how it works. They only exist as different classes because they have different themes. The different mechanics would not exist in the first place if the flavor text didn't exist. Making sorcerers use CON instead of CHA for their spellcasting ability would at least cement the idea that Sorcerers are innate casters and Warlocks are bargainers that had to sign/make a contract/deal to get their magic. That wouldn't make the theme a ton different, but it would at least make the mechanics match the theme. Barbarians don't get Cunning Action and have to focus on melee weapons, while rogues have to focus on Finesse/ranged weapons and have way less HP/ability to take a hit than Barbarians. Yes, they can be roleplayed similarly, but they are played in distinct ways and the mechanics influence how the characters are roleplayed. You quite literally said "mechanics don't influence roleplaying" and moved the goalposts to "well, except for spellcasters, because that's different". 1) It is not your whole character identity, but it is your core mechanical identity. Race, background, feats, that's all just extras that you add to your character idea to build onto it. There's a reason classes are the most mechanics-heavy of the 3 defining character-building options (race, class, background). 2) No, they're not. ASIs are class features. Feats aren't. They're optional, ASIs aren't. Variant humans are also optional, as are Custom Lineages, as is made quite clear in their text. Feats are optional, classes aren't (yes, DMs can exclude certain classes, but the class system as a whole is a core part of 5e that cannot be taken out without completely changing the game, while feats can). Yes, "something" does. Read the Bladesong feature, please. It cannot be activated while you're wearing medium/heavy armor or a shield, and you cannot wield two-handed weapons (or versatile weapons with two-hands) while using Bladesong. They are quite literally incompatible RAW. That's one of my major complaints with the "just play a bladesinger!" argument, because the Bladesinger heavily restricts the possible themes that a true, complete Arcane Gish class/subclass should be able to use (medium/heavy armor, shields, two-handed weapons, etc). I addressed all of this above. Again, read Bladesong to see why all of this is wrong. Tavern Brawler a) doesn't turn a Bladesinger into the Arcane Gish that we want, and b) even if it did, it would take a feat to do so. Paladins don't require feats to be paladins, so neither should Stabnerds. Thank you so very much for telling me that I didn't think about my character build enough. That truly means a lot. Please do mind the causticity, though I do feel that it's warranted. It is quite rude to say "if you aren't satisfied with the options available to you, it's because you did it wrong!", and I very much do not appreciate that and will ask you to never do that again to me or anyone else in the future. I detailed why Bladesingers don't work (and explained why they didn't work how you thought they did). I detailed why Eldritch Knights don't work (largely because of them being restricted to only 4th level spells, them automatically gaining cantrips, even though Rangers and Paladins don't, them being restricted to basically just two schools of magic from the Wizard spell list, and they can't prepare spells the way that a true practitioner of merging spell and sword should be able to (in my mind, anyway), and they're not at all good at merging spells with swords in any form (and no, just spamming Shadow-Blade and GFB/BB doesn't count). I can't play a mediumly-armored Elf that puts a lightning bolt into a scimitar that is released when the spell hits, or a Dwarf with a dwarven thrower that releases a fireball when it hits a giant in the face, or anything else that screams "merging arcane spell and weapon with each other". [/QUOTE]
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