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Giving the arcane gish an identity.
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8343795" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>Only if they are pact of the chain. Pact of the tome are limited to normal familiars.</p><p></p><p></p><p>They are feats, one of which I took instead of an ASI with the Rogue feature. The point is I can cast a wide variety of spells off multiple spell lists and about the same number of castings as a full caster.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>There is a line, but your example is not it IMO. Barbarians do not make good spellcasters but bladesingers do make good Gish characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is not true, there are 17 skills. A Rogue has 11 skills to choose from and another 2 he can get IF he takes the scout subclass. If he wants to be great at any of the other 6/4 skills in the game he is going to need a race, background and/or feat to do it.</p><p></p><p>The point is he can and he can do that relatively easily.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You are not "giving up" any feats, you are building your character.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes they do. They give up things all the time to get what you want. Someone who takes GWM "gives up" +2 in an abilty. Someone who takes PAM "gives up" the ability to do +10 on damage, someone who takes +2 in strength "gives up" the ability to make a BA attack with the back of his polearm.</p><p></p><p>This is no different than those choices.</p><p></p><p>The Rogue who takes mobile feat (which is very, very common) gives up a third of his cunning action and in an example that is completely appropriate if he is a swashbuckler subclass he gives up the "main core feature" of his subclass.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No unarmored defense, which is a core feature, ceases to work.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Unarmored defense and bladesong are similar. Rage is not mechanically similar at all. Unarmored defense and bladesong both give another ability as a bonus to AC. Bladesong is weaker though because it is limited use. Yet the Barbarian gives up unarmored defense and that is not a problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. But this presumes you are going to take it instead of increasing strength.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The Paladin has an extremely limited number of smites and they are far inferior to casting a spell as part of an attack. Being able to do this just once a day below level 10, while also having all weapons and armor would make such a character substantially more powerful than a Paladin.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am going by what you used as an example. You are taking a spell that does MORE damage then a smite and letting it be loosed as part of any attack (not just a melee attack), that spell is one example of many as you can do basically anything that a spell you have can do and you are breaking action economy to do it. It is heads and tails above divine smite.</p><p></p><p>If you compare this to the Paladin smite:</p><p>1. The Paladin smite can only do radiant damage to one target, they can't do anything else with their smites. It is limited. The ability you propose is limited only by the effects of the spells you have.</p><p>2. The example you gave already does more damage than a smite and this is going to be more lopsided at higher levels (fireball 8d6 vs many foes or smite 4d8 against 1 foe)</p><p></p><p>If you really want something that is balanced, how about this as a template:</p><p>Use the Paladin template, but have "spellstrike" and a unique spell list and let you use a weapon as a focus.</p><p></p><p>Spellstrike: After you hit with an attack you can cast one of your spells as part of the attack, the attack gives the visuals and appearance of the spell cast (i.e. the theme) but it only damages or affects the target you hit and any damage caused by the spell is capped at 1d8+1d8 per spell slot expended.</p><p></p><p>This gives you mechanics that are only a little more powerful than one of the best martial classes in the game while having the theme you are looking for because you will actually have a fireball blowing up (it will just only be damaging one person)</p><p></p><p>Replace Lay on Hands with ritual casting. Get rid of divine sense since your smite has varied uses and damage types and is more powerful than standard divine smite. Replace Aura of protection with a bonus on your saves vs magic.</p><p></p><p>That would be actually be pretty balanced with a Paladin through the first 10 levels or so, but my guess is it is not powerful enough for you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8343795, member: 7030563"] Only if they are pact of the chain. Pact of the tome are limited to normal familiars. They are feats, one of which I took instead of an ASI with the Rogue feature. The point is I can cast a wide variety of spells off multiple spell lists and about the same number of castings as a full caster. There is a line, but your example is not it IMO. Barbarians do not make good spellcasters but bladesingers do make good Gish characters. This is not true, there are 17 skills. A Rogue has 11 skills to choose from and another 2 he can get IF he takes the scout subclass. If he wants to be great at any of the other 6/4 skills in the game he is going to need a race, background and/or feat to do it. The point is he can and he can do that relatively easily. You are not "giving up" any feats, you are building your character. Yes they do. They give up things all the time to get what you want. Someone who takes GWM "gives up" +2 in an abilty. Someone who takes PAM "gives up" the ability to do +10 on damage, someone who takes +2 in strength "gives up" the ability to make a BA attack with the back of his polearm. This is no different than those choices. The Rogue who takes mobile feat (which is very, very common) gives up a third of his cunning action and in an example that is completely appropriate if he is a swashbuckler subclass he gives up the "main core feature" of his subclass. No unarmored defense, which is a core feature, ceases to work. Unarmored defense and bladesong are similar. Rage is not mechanically similar at all. Unarmored defense and bladesong both give another ability as a bonus to AC. Bladesong is weaker though because it is limited use. Yet the Barbarian gives up unarmored defense and that is not a problem. Yes. But this presumes you are going to take it instead of increasing strength. The Paladin has an extremely limited number of smites and they are far inferior to casting a spell as part of an attack. Being able to do this just once a day below level 10, while also having all weapons and armor would make such a character substantially more powerful than a Paladin. I am going by what you used as an example. You are taking a spell that does MORE damage then a smite and letting it be loosed as part of any attack (not just a melee attack), that spell is one example of many as you can do basically anything that a spell you have can do and you are breaking action economy to do it. It is heads and tails above divine smite. If you compare this to the Paladin smite: 1. The Paladin smite can only do radiant damage to one target, they can't do anything else with their smites. It is limited. The ability you propose is limited only by the effects of the spells you have. 2. The example you gave already does more damage than a smite and this is going to be more lopsided at higher levels (fireball 8d6 vs many foes or smite 4d8 against 1 foe) If you really want something that is balanced, how about this as a template: Use the Paladin template, but have "spellstrike" and a unique spell list and let you use a weapon as a focus. Spellstrike: After you hit with an attack you can cast one of your spells as part of the attack, the attack gives the visuals and appearance of the spell cast (i.e. the theme) but it only damages or affects the target you hit and any damage caused by the spell is capped at 1d8+1d8 per spell slot expended. This gives you mechanics that are only a little more powerful than one of the best martial classes in the game while having the theme you are looking for because you will actually have a fireball blowing up (it will just only be damaging one person) Replace Lay on Hands with ritual casting. Get rid of divine sense since your smite has varied uses and damage types and is more powerful than standard divine smite. Replace Aura of protection with a bonus on your saves vs magic. That would be actually be pretty balanced with a Paladin through the first 10 levels or so, but my guess is it is not powerful enough for you. [/QUOTE]
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