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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8353064" data-attributes="member: 7030563">I would say that is a 5th-level spell.  So on a full caster as a stand alone spell, level 9.If you compare this to other spells:a 5th level lightning bolt would do about this much to everyone it its area, which is typically smaller than a fireball.a 5th level fireball would do abou tthis much to everyone in a 20'  radiusa 5th level flame strike would do the same as the base damage but to fewer enemies and without getting one for the extra 9.5.a 5ht level virtiolic sphere would do slightly more to everyone in its area over 2 turns assuming no saves.a 5ht level cloudkill does substantially less damage per turn but over several turns.a 5th-level ice storm does substantially less damage.So I would say that is a 5th-level spell, but I could see how you could argue for 4th level.But it is important to note, this is a straight up spell attack action where the 1d8+5 is part of the specific spell being cast, not something that is part of something else which is tacked on and combined with any spell.  Finally 1d8+5 extra damage is fundamentally different than an extra attack as that can be for a lot more damage and have numerous other riders or effects on it.If you are talking about the ability to combine an attack with a leveled spell I would rate it extremely high, equivalent to a 6th level spell.They do though.  Martial weapons and heavy armor being the two most obvious ways.I do not think all the classes are the exact same power level in combat.  If you include all three pillars sure I would agree with this concept but it would be hard to objectively measure.The game designers have stated that action economy should not be altered and this would disrupt the balance of the game.  In the example we are talking about, the class would be the only character in the game that can use both the attack action and the cast a spell action with a leveled spell in the same turn repeatedly.  The only other class/subclass that can do this at all (Fighter/EK) can only do it twice per  short rest at 17th level (once per SR before this) and is limited to casting one 4th level spell a day at 20th level.  Further those who say we need this new Gish are on record saying the EK is not enough for them.  You are literally taking the biggest ability that distinguishes the fighter class and replacing it with something that is far, for more powerful and can be used far more often.Shatter is a strawman, because you aren't limiting this to shatter.  Even so, the classes that do allow casting action spells and attacking limit it cantrips, even at 20th level.  Casting shatter with an attack is undeniably more powerful than just making an attack or than using bladesinger extra attack, which are what it should be compared to.  Similarly war magic only allows an attack as a bonus action after casting a cantrip.  It does not allow it after a leveled spell.  This would by any measure be more powerful than those class features and those classes never get the ability to do what  you are talking about, even with a low-level spell like shatter at 20th level.</blockquote>

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