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<blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 8353122" data-attributes="member: 6802951"><p>OK. So you feel that the ability to do this a couple of times a day would be suitable for a 7th-level full-caster.</p><p>What level do you think would be suitable for a class ability with the same effects as the spell would be for a class that is not a full caster to be able to do twice per day?</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm using the example with fireball to demonstrate that the ability is not excessive, because that is the one you picked out.</p><p>Regarding the damage, d8+5 seemed reasonable at that level, particularly since you regard AC so highly. We can say that they drop the shield and deal 2d6+5 if you prefer?</p><p>What "other riders or effects" are you worried about?</p><p></p><p></p><p>OK. Even when applied to a 1st level spell like Chromatic Orb you regard the resulting damage as equivalent to a 6th level spell?</p><p>That is actually quite handy because Disintegrate is a also a single-target spell, so we can compare the effects directly.</p><p>Does that seem fair?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Interesting.</p><p>Aren't martial weapons generally equivalent to about +1 damage, and Heavy armour only 1 or two points of AC?</p><p>You feel that those differences balance out the difference between full spell progression and only half progression?</p><p></p><p>Personally I would have gone for Extra Attack, but I'm <em>extremely </em>interested in why you believe that it is Martial Weapons and Heavy armour that make the difference.</p><p></p><p></p><p>OK. If you want to stick to combat performance, that is fine. - This is a combat ability after all.</p><p>Do you believe that full caster classes should be more powerful in combat than half-casters and martials? By roughly how much?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't EKs get Extra Attack, Heavy Armour, Fighting style etc?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Shatter is the closest 2nd level spell to Fireball that came to mind: both being ranged circular AoE spells.</p><p></p><p>If you are unaware of the implications of the word that you just used, could you look it up please?</p><p>If you <em>are </em>fully aware of the implications, and you <em>did</em> actually intend it as an accusation that I am being dishonest, then could you kindly explain yourself?</p><p></p><p> Hence the reason for the comparison: At the point at which this subclass would be dealing AoE damage by swinging as part of casting Shatter, the Bladesinger would be dealing AoE with Fireball.</p><p></p><p> OK. In terms of class performance in combat: why?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cap'n Kobold, post: 8353122, member: 6802951"] OK. So you feel that the ability to do this a couple of times a day would be suitable for a 7th-level full-caster. What level do you think would be suitable for a class ability with the same effects as the spell would be for a class that is not a full caster to be able to do twice per day? I'm using the example with fireball to demonstrate that the ability is not excessive, because that is the one you picked out. Regarding the damage, d8+5 seemed reasonable at that level, particularly since you regard AC so highly. We can say that they drop the shield and deal 2d6+5 if you prefer? What "other riders or effects" are you worried about? OK. Even when applied to a 1st level spell like Chromatic Orb you regard the resulting damage as equivalent to a 6th level spell? That is actually quite handy because Disintegrate is a also a single-target spell, so we can compare the effects directly. Does that seem fair? Interesting. Aren't martial weapons generally equivalent to about +1 damage, and Heavy armour only 1 or two points of AC? You feel that those differences balance out the difference between full spell progression and only half progression? Personally I would have gone for Extra Attack, but I'm [I]extremely [/I]interested in why you believe that it is Martial Weapons and Heavy armour that make the difference. OK. If you want to stick to combat performance, that is fine. - This is a combat ability after all. Do you believe that full caster classes should be more powerful in combat than half-casters and martials? By roughly how much? Don't EKs get Extra Attack, Heavy Armour, Fighting style etc? Shatter is the closest 2nd level spell to Fireball that came to mind: both being ranged circular AoE spells. If you are unaware of the implications of the word that you just used, could you look it up please? If you [I]are [/I]fully aware of the implications, and you [I]did[/I] actually intend it as an accusation that I am being dishonest, then could you kindly explain yourself? Hence the reason for the comparison: At the point at which this subclass would be dealing AoE damage by swinging as part of casting Shatter, the Bladesinger would be dealing AoE with Fireball. OK. In terms of class performance in combat: why? [/QUOTE]
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