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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8354227" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Not on someone with heavy armor or martial weapon proficiency and not this much damage as far as I know.  With the 50 or so subclasses maybe there is something I am not remembering.I think school of evocation is what you should compare this to.  That subclass is supposed to be the most damaging caster in the game in terms of big bang damaging spells and she gets a flat +5 to evocation spells only at 10th level (assuming you took your ASIs for boosting intel), and an enemies save can typically reduce this in half.At 14th level she can get max damage on a spell of 5th level or lower ONCE a long rest.  on a 5th-level fireball that is 35 points once a day.  If she does it more than once she takes damage herself and she can't do it at all on non-evocations.Obviously she has no armor proficiencies at all and does not even have simple weapon proficiency.Well yes.  Fighting a blue dragon or a frost giant or any other boss not resistant to fire and fireball is going to be my go-to 3rd level spell if I can get it off without hitting allies (or sometimes even when I do have to hit an ally).But let's turn this arguement upside down - you want to take the attack action and deal damage everyone in a 20 foot radius.  How often do you attack and deal damage to every enemy inside the range of a fireball?  How many other classes can do that?It is an issue.  To start with no PC gets multiple attacks like monsters do.  PCs get extra attack which is part of the same attack action.  They do not get a second action to attack again.With bounded accuracy it is an issue and it is not just me saying it, the DMG actually says it as well, stating in the section on custom rules that changes to the rules which alter concentration or action/reaction/bonus action unbalance the game.It is a half caster with martial weapons and heavy armor.  In concept it is closer to Paladin than any other class in the game, it just has far better combat abilities and a far better spell selection.  Doing this just a few times a day will dish out more extra damage than a Paladin with all his smites combined and you will still have most of a day's spells remaining.It doesn't matter what class you compare it to though.  It will outrun them all in damage, while be better protected and with top tier hps and great spell selection.The damage in raw numbers is equivalent to a 2nd-level spell slot tacked onto an attack, but it is much more flexible because you can use any spell.  Given that it should require a 3rd-level slot, instead of a second which is available to a half caster at 9th level.If it gives no armor at all, is limited to wizard/sorcerer weapons and is a d8 for hps it would eliminate a lot of them  You are still breaking action economy at will and that should not be taken lightly, but you would be squishy without race or feats to make up this ground in terms of weapons and armor that would at least be closer to balanced.Such a character could still be built into the theme you want with race and feats, but there would still be a price to pay for the OP ability you want to give it.No official class/subclass in 5E has equivalent performance to a character that wears heavy armor, martial weapons and can both attack and cast a leveled spell in the same action.  This would be on a level of its own.Casting a spell and attacking in the same turn is two actions in a turn.They can cast shatter once a  day at 7th level on the same turn they attack.  They can not do  "whenever they want".You are also wrong when you say EK would strictly be dealing more damage using extra attack.Using cantrips make up a lot of ground towards matching extra attack.   Someone taking one action and using GFB with a rapier at 5th level is doing 13.4 to one creature and 7.8 to another for 21 total and your GISH can do this every single turn without using extra attack at all.  A EK using extra attack with a rapier is actually doing LESS total damage -17.4 total to 1 creature.   This is why a baldesinger is so powerful because he can use a cantrip and extra attack both, dealing 29 total.Change it to a greatsword it is closer 24.1 with GFB, 22.7 using extra attack but the cantrip is still more.   Those numbers all assume 18 S/D, 16  int and consider crits.Now, an EK can use the cantrip too but if he does this he matches the regular "every round" damage of your character exactly, not beating it at all and when you switch to attack and spell you beat him buy a LOT that turn and since you are a half caster you have more spells to boot.  At higher levels when the EK gets warmagic or 3 attacks with extra attack he can move ahead, but not by a lot, certainly not by as much to equal the spell you are going to toss 3 or 4 times a day.It will, with the weapons and armor it will push it over what a full caster can do and it is not just the damage, it is the effects.  You can hit a boss for debilitating damage and then hit him with a hold person or a hypnotic pattern.  That is op, no way around it.  A full caster  can't do that normally.Also let's be clear "like the bladesinger" means it will match the most powerful class in the game.  If you really want a balanced class you need to aim lower.  The reason the bladesinger extra attack was changed between SCAG and TCE was for people who wanted to "mix sword and sorcery" like you are talking about, the original bladesinger with a "normal" extra attack was not enough.  Allowing a cantrip on extra attack was the least offensive way and least unbalancing way they could do it and that transformed the class from a top-tier subclass to the most powerful subclass in the game bar none.  The ability you want to hand out is even more powerful than this.</blockquote>

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