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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sagiro" data-source="post: 2379254" data-attributes="member: 726">Yes, and no, respectively.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />My statement was not meant to imply that.  I agree completely that the sort of cognitive dissonance I'm talking about is what causes a saving throw, and not an automatic see-through-the-illusion effect.  The bar for automatic disillusionment should be pretty high -- for instance, if a human-as-rat starts a grapple, I'd say that level of physical contact stresses the illusion too far.  (Whereas a human-as-elf would not.)  Your personal breaking point may be higher, obviously, but it sounds like we agree in principle.I think I'd rather deal with the consequences of some invisibility-ish activity, than imagine that the illusion causes the rat to appear super-stretchy.  But your arguments are compelling, and I may change my mind.  One thing's for sure; if faced with a rat that whose little arm stretched to 6 feet long, the observer will get a save with some bonuses attached.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I think you misunderstand me.  I don't think any of the things you mention look natural, either.  The rat jumping 8 feet into the air will look unnatural just like the monk jumping 20 feet.  When I say "The glamer isn't going to somehow provide extra mojo to make that look natural," I mean it's not going to make the rope appear longer, or the rat larger, or anything else that will make an observer think:  "yeah, that jumping rat is no big deal.  I bet all rats can do that."  You're going to see a rat make a jump that looks impossible in the same way a monk jumping flat-footed onto the roof of a two-story building looks impossible.-Sagiro</blockquote>

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