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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sagiro" data-source="post: 2381242" data-attributes="member: 726">Regarding your gear/sweat/shadow/etc. examples: before I ever reach the point where I'm asking the sort of questions in my original post, I do (believe it or not) apply a "common sense" test to spell effects.  In almost every other relevant place in the 3.5 rules, "gear" is part of a person.  In the case of veil, a person laden with equipment who is glamered to look like a cave rat will look like a naked, gear-less rat, unless the caster wanted rats wearing little rat outfits and holding pin-swords or something.   You won't see a human shadow, or light glinting off the mirror around his neck, or anything like that.  And using your example, even highly intelligent demons won't automatically see through the illusion; they'll get their saves just like anyone else, if and when the party "interacts" with them.  As a semi-aside:  for all that I agree with you on most points, I'm still not swayed by the "it's a 6th level spell so it must be powerful" argument.  In my book, a spell that disguises your whole party, as anything you want, all day long, would be a solid 6th level spell even if you had to be really, really paranoid about not doing things that betrayed the illusion.   With veil, I think you don't have to be paranoid; just not stupid.And as a full aside: the wizard's decision to use cave rats in this case wasn't a bad idea, really.  Cave rats are all over the place down where the party is exploring, and many possible threats would have ignored them.  The party just happened to run into some giant-ish creatures that like to eat cave rats.   Ah well.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />-Sagiro</blockquote>

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