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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crimson Longinus" data-source="post: 9615387" data-attributes="member: 7025508">What the two different approaches in the OP to the alarm type spell exemplify is differing level of abstraction. Torchbearer seems to abstract several elements that in D&D would depend on fictional position. Now what level of abstraction for given matter is desirable is very much a matter of taste. All games of course abstract a lot of things, and couldn't function otherwise. But abstraction also elides details some people might feel should matter. Like in D&D it would probably matter whether the enemy encountering the alarm spell would be a brutish ogre or a magehunter that is an expert on magical countermeasures. Would it matter in Torchbearer? I don't know, but some such omissions are always made with abstractions. But yes, relying more on fictional positioning on resolution of course requires the GM to decide several aspects of such positioning. This is something some people might want to minimise, but of course, like abstraction, certain amount of this is required in any RPG. Generally I do not see the GM deciding these sort of things as a flaw, quite the opposite, I see it as a feature. I think it is strength of tabletop games that we have a creative and versatile human mind running them rather than rigid computer or strict set of rules. Now it has already been noted by several posters, not all "GM deciding" is the same. It is quite different for GM to decide that the alarm will be bypassed based on already decided fiction, rather than decide that the alarm needs to be bypassed and then retroactively invent fiction to justify it. And whilst on individual occasion the result might seem identical to the players, in the long run these approaches will yield quite different feel. In a game where there is set fiction it becomes important part of the game for the players to endeavour to learn about the fictional positioning of various things and take steps to use them to their advantage. This sort of solid objective world has reality that one that purely relies on the dice or the GM's momentary whims lacks.And as player I prefer games where I interact more with the fictional position and less with the rules. It keeps me engaged with the fiction. Similarly as a GM it is more satisfying to me to think about the fiction, and decide possible rules element based on that, rather than other way around. Torchbearer seems to be quite rules first, where the fiction is invented to suit the rules rather than other way around. (Though of course all games use some amount of both.)Leaving the camp or town while the other characters remain there?</blockquote>

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