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<blockquote data-quote="bloodtide" data-source="post: 9617327" data-attributes="member: 6684958">No.&nbsp; This is the fundamental difference right here.&nbsp; You say &quot;only a small number of things from my tiny list can happen&quot;.&nbsp; I say &quot;anything&quot;.&nbsp; You play a Limited Game, I play an Unlimited Game.There are not.&nbsp; You can make and follow any limit you want, but they don't just 'exist'.And what you think of as logic is not what you think it is....&nbsp; &nbsp; Right.I'm waiting on you telling me how.&nbsp; Your really backwards here.&nbsp; So you can imagine anything, but find it no challenge.&nbsp; But when some rules limit you to only a couple things, then it is a challenge for you to think of something within those limits.Like I can and do eat whatever I want for dinner on a whim.&nbsp; You want someone to only give you two slices of bread and a slice of ham and then say &quot;ok, make a dinner for yourself out of that.&quot;&nbsp; So you take up the challenge and after a lot of hard work you make....a ham sandwich.&nbsp; And you are amazed with your creativity.So I was partly right saying some limits and constraints are for all.So just the normal way to play a RPG....I would dare to say that is a limit.&nbsp; One I will never have in any of my games ever.&nbsp; Ahem:&nbsp; &quot;Give me any chance I'll take it, Give me any rule I'll break it!&nbsp; Doing it my way!&quot;This is a very dumb, poorly written rule.&nbsp; So....you are big about &quot;logic&quot; in a game.&nbsp; So why don't you apply logic to this rule?&nbsp; So, once a day the player can Alter Reality to create an inn/tavern anywhere.&nbsp; So the character can be anywhere...the trackless sea, a dungeon, a desert, a swamp..and use the rule and the DM must bow to the rules and player and say &quot;yes&quot; every single time?&nbsp; So why can't the DM use your Logic and say &quot;there are none nearby&quot; if there logically would be none nearby?And what about abuse?&nbsp; The character can just go to an out of the way place and say &quot;pop inn/tavern is here&quot; and then rob the place and kill everyone inside.&nbsp; Then wait a day and say &quot;pop, another one&quot; just five feet from the last one.&nbsp; And the DM must just sit there and say &quot;yes player&quot;?&nbsp; What about a character just making an inn/tavern anywhere they want to rest.&nbsp; &quot;Pop&quot; one is always there every day.A better rule, but still open to abuse.&nbsp; Though guess here even when the player spews &quot;my character can do dumb thing&quot; and the NPC &quot;believes them&quot; or whatever, at least this rule does not overly force the DM to do anything.&nbsp; So an NPC can &quot;believe&quot; the PC has the power to destroy the world and still attack and kill the PC.Unless your going to say by your logic &quot;believe&quot; is Mind Domination or something.Oh, do I hate such rules.&nbsp; I'd answer &quot;how about you try playing the game sometime you lazy player&quot;.&nbsp; A big part of a role playing game is that role playing part...the &quot;acting&quot; part.&nbsp; If you want to find out something: try playing the game.&nbsp; Don't just sit there and say &quot;DM tell me stuff!&quot;And it is just me, but such dumb questions ruin the game.&nbsp; So a player can just act like an idiot for six hours and just ask some questions and be told &quot;the mayor is a dopplegagger&quot; then go kill that mayor.&nbsp; Wow...exciting game: get an exploit answer and act.&nbsp; Sure it is great for simple, causal games.....but I prefer more &quot;deep&quot; games where the players must figure out things for real.Just think of my harsh answers: Interesting stuff, your character is about to die, character death, time, The DM, your &quot;logic&quot;....and then rocks would fall on the character and kill them and the player would be kicked out of my game.Ok, these are all fine examples: thank you.&nbsp; I still hate them and have lots of concerns(see above and below).....You did not give a good example of one where a rule made you more creative though.&nbsp; How are you more creative when the player alters reality to say &quot;make my special tavern right there DM!&quot;?&nbsp; How are you more creative when you again bow to the player and say &quot;the NPC believes you&quot;?&nbsp; And how is it more creative when the player just asks questions?&nbsp; Odd that all your examples are also pure player empowerment too.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bloodtide, post: 9617327, member: 6684958"] No. This is the fundamental difference right here. You say "only a small number of things from my tiny list can happen". I say "anything". You play a Limited Game, I play an Unlimited Game. There are not. You can make and follow any limit you want, but they don't just 'exist'. And what you think of as logic is not what you think it is.... Right. I'm waiting on you telling me how. Your really backwards here. So you can imagine anything, but find it no challenge. But when some rules limit you to only a couple things, then it is a challenge for you to think of something within those limits. Like I can and do eat whatever I want for dinner on a whim. You want someone to only give you two slices of bread and a slice of ham and then say "ok, make a dinner for yourself out of that." So you take up the challenge and after a lot of hard work you make....a ham sandwich. And you are amazed with your creativity. So I was partly right saying some limits and constraints are for all. So just the normal way to play a RPG.... I would dare to say that is a limit. One I will never have in any of my games ever. Ahem: "Give me any chance I'll take it, Give me any rule I'll break it! Doing it my way!" This is a very dumb, poorly written rule. So....you are big about "logic" in a game. So why don't you apply logic to this rule? So, once a day the player can Alter Reality to create an inn/tavern anywhere. So the character can be anywhere...the trackless sea, a dungeon, a desert, a swamp..and use the rule and the DM must bow to the rules and player and say "yes" every single time? So why can't the DM use your Logic and say "there are none nearby" if there logically would be none nearby? And what about abuse? The character can just go to an out of the way place and say "pop inn/tavern is here" and then rob the place and kill everyone inside. Then wait a day and say "pop, another one" just five feet from the last one. And the DM must just sit there and say "yes player"? What about a character just making an inn/tavern anywhere they want to rest. "Pop" one is always there every day. A better rule, but still open to abuse. Though guess here even when the player spews "my character can do dumb thing" and the NPC "believes them" or whatever, at least this rule does not overly force the DM to do anything. So an NPC can "believe" the PC has the power to destroy the world and still attack and kill the PC. Unless your going to say by your logic "believe" is Mind Domination or something. [I]Oh, do I hate such rules. [/I]I'd answer "how about you try playing the game sometime you lazy player". A big part of a role playing game is that role playing part...the "acting" part. If you want to find out something: try playing the game[I]. Don't just sit there and say "DM tell me stuff!"[/I] And it is just me, but such dumb questions ruin the game. So a player can just act like an idiot for six hours and just ask some questions and be told "the mayor is a dopplegagger" then go kill that mayor. Wow...exciting game: get an exploit answer and act. Sure it is great for simple, causal games.....but I prefer more "deep" games where the players must figure out things for real. Just think of my harsh answers: Interesting stuff, your character is about to die, character death, time, The DM, your "logic"....and then rocks would fall on the character and kill them and the player would be kicked out of my game. Ok, these are all fine examples: thank you. I still hate them and have lots of concerns(see above and below)..... You did not give a good example of one where a rule made you more creative though. How are you more creative when the player alters reality to say "make my special tavern right there DM!"? How are you more creative when you again bow to the player and say "the NPC believes you"? And how is it more creative when the player just asks questions? Odd that all your examples are also pure player empowerment too. [/QUOTE]

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