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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9619106" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think you have a point here. What ends up happening though is, you take D&D, a game fundamentally designed to handle the sorts of fairly stereotyped situations constituting dungeon play, and you try to extrapolate it out to any situation. It doesn't hold up well at all.Around the mid-80s people had grown frustrated. Procedure focused games suck a lot of the life out of character and story. Everything is focused on time, space, gear, etc. Those are interesting up to a point, but if they are the primary focus, then characters and personalities and narrative remain as secondary elements. The focus has always to be on physical space and such primarily. And these games must necessarily grind along on detail.And when this sort of game 'breaks free' of those constraints? It becomes incredibly hard to make it work. This is exactly why such games always fall down in high level play. When the characters have exceeded all mundane constraints, there's nothing left, the game is out of gas and you have basically pure Calvin Ball. Yes, it will now focus on narrative and character, but without any elements of being a game anymore.We wanted heroic stories of derring-do, or epic struggle, tragedy and triumph. What we got was 10' squares, counting gold pieces, and deciding if Alarm would work here. Processes that failed entirely when moved out of the dungeon.</blockquote>