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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 9621097">I am going to leave the prior points in this alone, not to avoid engagement but because I just think we are risking going down an endless cycle of back and forth over definitions. But I do want to address this because I think it is important in these conversations. This, in my view, isn't how definitions operate. They aren't meaning of word 1 plus meaning of word 2 gives you definition. We operate by how those words are used in practice. Especially in something like a hobby space where you can have lots of terms almost completely divorced from the meaning of their core parts. Also I don't think it is undesirable for players to have agency beyond their character. I said before in my last post, there is nothing wrong with systems that do that. And I have also commented a lot on the game Hillfolk, which I like, and have played, and consider deeply immersive, that gives players considerable narrative control. I wasn't trying to say you can't make meaningful choices. I was just talking about how railroad concerns and agency usually refer to concerns about meaningful choice in the game world. I don't even disagree that narrative controls in systems are an answer to the problem of railroading. I just think it introduces a whole other topic that is really best discussed on its own and not folded into this one. You can fold it in, but then we keep having to make that distinction between player character and player agency. it wouldn't be a big deal, except there are style underlying a lot of this conversation and so it is important people aren't being convinced by a trick of language</blockquote>

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