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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9621187" data-attributes="member: 6785785">I meant that you generally find it undesirable for a game to do that, not that it is or that you think it is undesirable in and of itself. I feel like you're narrowing the definition of player agency to fit your general preferences. I'm trying to use a definition that is not limited by preferences. Yes, but that's why I think it's best to think of the things you can do as a character as a subset of things you can do as a player. The things you can do as a player are what give you agency. Among those things are the things you can do as a character. It's like you want to say that vowels aren't letters because they're not consonants. I think it does seem a bit pedantic. If I reject the duke's invitation to explore and map his lands (the GM's proposed hexcrawl style game) and instead go to the coast to be a freebooter, that's a shift in narrative. I as a player am able to exert influence over what is happening in the game. If the GM is like "come on man, I made this huge map and prepped all these hexes... can we at least give this a try" then my agency as a player is limited, and it has nothing to do with my character, even if we roleplay the scene out so that the duke convinces my character to do it with a greater reward. If I can spend a Benny and call upon the duke's trait to be weak-willed and use it to override his request, I'm using agency granted to me by the game to get what I want as a player. Some would say this use of metacurrency is beyond what a character can do, and others would say it's representative of the characters... but that's irrelevant to whether or not it gives me agency as a player. To use something even more removed from the setting... if I invoke a Devil's Bargain in Blades in the Dark... the GM offers me a consequence that will happen no matter what, but gives me an additional die to roll, that's another form of player agency. It's a resource that I as a player can use to improve my chances in play. Do you look at the two examples from the OP and see how one could be concerning when it comes to railroading and the like, and the other is less so?</blockquote>

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