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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 9622788" data-attributes="member: 6696971">This above just doesn't seem helpful to any broad discussion of TTRPGing.  It also seems to obscure or mystify what is actually happening in these games.Only a certain from of TTRPGing is contingent upon:* freeform puzzle solving where players explore a GM-exclusive prefabricated conception of an imagined space and that GM's attempts at deftly veiled elucidation of content in order to prompt clues, reveals, exposition dumps and then attempt puzzle solves.* freeform, conflict-neutral or premise-neutral play (or sometimes free of both) where color, affect, and overall performance of participants are central (at least in isolated chunks) as participants explore or give expression to mundane & benign "goings-ons."* social pressure-enforcement along with techniques deployed (no orientaint/clarifying meta-conversation, GM vetting "what you would know" as a fundamental part of player's decision loop, GM rolling behind a screen, "blind" action resolution numbers) to constrain player POV thereby limiting information expressed or acted upon to only that which the table perceives and agrees "the character would know."But even within this particular form of TTRPGing, there are ways to evaluate how expansion or contraction of player POV expands or contracts agency, particularly when these contingent pieces above persist simultaneously with a game engine + GMing regime that randomly gives expression to play in the form of structure in play loop, codified units integrated within a superstructure of procedures, action economy, resolution economy, clarified finality of resolution and then randomly does not.  Or a game engine + GMing regime that provides currency for players to parley into moves but then randomly renders that currency unreliable.The interaction of this bolded gets to the heart of the lead post.  If I'm a player of a Ranger or Wizard who has invested in PC build scheme resources or play to have at my disposal the Alarm spell, it would yield more agency if:* those 8 hours and effect size are a functional unit of play (Exploration Turn dynamics and threat mitigation dynamics) that are (a) persistent, (b) reliable, (c) therefore able to be engaged with in an actionable way (denoting structure).  Remove those unit dynamics (their intrinsic value and their integration in a greater exploration & recovery regime) and I'm on very unsteady footing when making plays around Alarm...and the currency of Alarm which I invested in becomes unreliable, not actionable in a coherent way.* there is a knowable, persistent, actionable engine of Wandering Monsters/Random Encounters.  If it is arbitrary to opaque from a player's perspective (a) when & how hostile encounters are introduced to play, (b) how that hostile encounter is rostered (type, how many, reaction), and (c) what the arsenal and weaknesses of the opposition are, then I'm on very unsteady footing when making plays around Alarm...and the currency of Alarm which I invested in becomes unreliable; not actionable in a coherent and durable way.[HR][/HR]Here is an example of enhanced agency with respect to the above.  The game includes:1) an immutable Exploration Engine replete with (i) Exploration Turns, (ii) moves and currency that interact with the economy of (i), (iii) a Wandering Monster clock w/ supporting tables, (iv) a Rest clock, (v) codified Recovery procedures for currency, (vi) Inventory/coin system and management that is high-impact yet reasonable cognitive load.2) a hexmap that is mapped, keyed, and stocked with all the relevant particulars such as (i) travel rates and any travel-attending resolution procedures, (ii) stock hex encounters, (iii) day/night Wandering Monster tables per hex, (iv) safe/dangerous intrahex locations for mandatory Rest or to initiate Recovery procedures.3) governing resolution procedures that are persistent, reliable, and knowable (therefore actionable).4) a within-structure means (therefore there is clear risk and/or cost to make relevant moves) to recon/research a hex's obstacle dynamics (terrain and related hazards/travel rates, stock encounters, Wandering Monster table dynamics) so you can outfit mundane kit, hire useful retainers, loadout relevant spells, and generally be prepared for the coming exploration regime.Now as you either remove any constituent part (structure, economy, handles, currency, resolution procedures) above or you render one its immutable qualities arbitrary in application (thereby not actionable as a feature of play), that Alarm spell (with very specific units that presumably aren't meant to be mere color) that you spent PC build resources on or in-game efforts to attain suddenly becomes unreliable currency.  Ranger players will rightly eschew Alarm for Absorb Elements or Hunter's Mark while Wizard players will go with any number of spells that are actual reliable currency.Alternatively, in a formulation of play where all the stuff above is intact my Ranger might have spent an increasing sum of coin in a safe haven (some village or whatever) to:(a) buy a map or hire a guide which will facilitate increased Travel Rate per Exploration Turn through x hex or will give some table-facing advantage on obstacle action resolution or the ability to outright bypass an obstacle in x hex...* (b) learn of a cave in x hex that shuts down certain Wandering Monster entry hits...* (c) learn of the Flying Poison Spitting Vipers (Range 30 of course!) + their predator's scent + how to attain it, allowing me to...* (d) swiftly lead my charges through nearly the whole hex to make camp in the cave for resource recovery/mandatory rest > deploy the scent outside of the cave > cast my Alarm spell > thereby ensuring the now (post moves I've made) very few remaining Wandering Monster entry hits that could come up will trigger my Alarm spell.Tada.  More agency (much more agency) and more Rangeritude than in play which is unstable or arbitrary (or at least seemingly from a player's point of view) in its application of freeform, structure, unit economy and resolution dynamics, and/or its handles/currency is unreliable rather than reliably actionable/deployable.Now all of the above bullet points for playstyle at the top of this post could still be in play here.  Maybe 3 out of our 4 players have all of their immersion particulars checked if they were boxes.  But our 4th player, or maybe even our GM, demands that coin economy/inventory is hand-waved or Wandering Monster clock particulars are veiled or...hell...Exploration Turns are outright excised (and all related economy/currencies/resolution as the whole travel/overland exploration paradigm of play is freeformed or seemingly so from the reference point of a player)...because engaging with these or their presence hurts this particular participant's immersion...they feel it doesn't constrain their POV enough.Ok.  Fine.But now while 1 participant's (autobiographical quality of) immersion is enhanced due to extra constraints on POV, player agency has both specifically (for the Ranger player) and broadly been negatively impacted and that reality is both trivially inferable and becomes empirically obvious as the play of the game unfolds.  Various currencies go from reliable to unreliable while various lines of play have their actionable portfolio, impacts, and experience of undertaking diminished...likely leading them into extinction.</blockquote>

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