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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 9625463">We just have a basic disagreement on how to describe these things. I doubt either of us are going to convert the other to our way of thinking on this matterYes it is. It is an established fact in the setting that the players can discover. If the GM commits to Mr. Body being dead in the lobby and having been killed by Mrs. Peacock with revolver, those are objective facts that can be discovered in the setting through investigation. No prompting by the players is going to change that Mrs. Peacock used a revolver to kill Mr. Body in the lobby. That is what makes it objective. They can objectively be right or wrong in their investigation and they can objectively fail or succeed in solving the mysteryA few reasons. First because most people accept that objective mysteries exist in RPGs. And most people would understand what I mean by players 'really solving' it. You want to break down play scientifically. But I am not at all interested in that form of analysis because as I have said many times, it is organic. I am not prescribing a set of procedures to follow. Thosethings are going to vary. There isn't just one process for exploring this. The important issue I was bringing to the table was that agency isn't expanded by giving players information if that information reveals things that would make their choices in an objective mystery lose meaning.</blockquote>