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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9625595" data-attributes="member: 6795602">Huh?First of all, this discussion is centered on mysteries in narrative games that don't have these details made up yet.  That's why I'm talking about that.  If they have these details made up before the game, then the mystery is just as real/objective/etc as in any non-narrative game.I know nothing about Ironsworn.  If it works differently than what I'm talking about then I'm not talking about it.In my example they would have failed on the last one.  So they didn't 'win'.  That wouldn't happen until the final clue is put in place, which is excluded in my example.  (Clocks at least in BitD (a game i'm somewhat familiar with) seem to me like a poor way of handling the solving of a mystery).If all those solutions are still possible at the very last moment then you haven't solved the mystery and can thus still fail to solve it by failing the next dice roll or rolls.This idea of deviation from pre-prepped material seems strange here.  How or why would that happen?Right, I never claimed anything previously established would be negated.  Though, that's kind of sad for the mystery genre, which is chock full examples where all the clues you've established pointing to the guilt of person X are later revealed to be a frame job.  I guess frame jobs in a mystery cannot happen in these games, or if they can, how is it possible to still uphold this while not negating prior player discoveries?</blockquote>

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