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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9625883" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Okay. Then let me specify. Because all three were meant to be player, nothing about the characters at all.We, as players, investigate (e.g. we declare actions that trigger Discern Realities rolls) -> We, as players, establish truths by making statements which do not contradict what is already known, and which follow the rules for the kinds of statements we can make -> We, as players, find out what the correct result is, assuming our efforts as players were successfulThat second step, making statements, creates new truths where before there were neither truths nor falsehoods, as anything not yet established has no truth value.I see an inherent contradiction between establishing new truths and solving a mystery. If I established the fiction that fixed the answer, or if I am one of a set of people who collectively established the fiction that fixed the answer, then I didn't solve it. I either made it myself, or I collaborated with others to make that result, rather than any other result. The result happened because I personally or collectively chose it. Mysteries do not have solutions people can choose. I cannot, by any effort of my own, choose which smallest prime number is larger than 1,000,111,222,333,444. I cannot affect what that is in any way, no matter what--nothing whatsoever that I do changes what that number is. It simply...is. What produces this inability, even in principle, to change the solution to the mystery when we are establishing new truths? The procedures cannot distinguish why clue A that points to the Duke's son is false while clue B which points to Dr. Crimson is true. Such distinguishing can only be done by people--and thus, it is chosen by someone. It is an answer, yes, but it is an answer manufactured, not an answer discovered.</blockquote>

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