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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9629415" data-attributes="member: 6785785">I don’t understand how something could be so clear to you yet you cannot describe it.Please. You’ve been just as certain in this thread, and have often cited how “blindingly obvious” things are and so on. As I pointed out much earlier, I’m not saying one way of doing things is real and the other isn’t. I said they’re both equally real… or unreal.We have different points of view… obviously… I’m going to state my case just as you’re going to yours. You’ve behaved no different in that regard. Okay… let me throw out a comment that maybe will help. So something like “Murder on the Orient Express” is a mystery novel by Agatha Christie. I’m sure we’re all at least passing familiar with it. I don’t think it contains a real mystery either. It’s a mystery novel about fictional people and a fictional mystery. I’m not trying to short change your play style in any way when I’ve been talking about this. I’m trying to separate the make believe (the mystery) from what we do at the table. Again… please. You just accused me of hubris and of being overconfident in my analysis, while steadfastly and repeatedly insisting on your view. Don’t try and paint me as the bad guy here. We’re discussing things and have both advocated for our views. I explained why I think it is similar to simulationism… it’s the error of thinking that the fictional events of play have actual cause and effect, that one thing leads to another is “organic” rather then “a decision made by the GM”. The idea of cause and effect is certainly something the GM is likely to consider… like if the PCs steal from the royal vault, the king will dispatch his men to find them… but that doesn’t mean there is actual cause and effect happening. The GM could say the king doesn’t dispatch his men… because the threat of war from the neighboring country is too great to spare anyone… or whatever else he decides. And that’s what I think connects us to the OP. The amount of decision making and back story creation by the GM can be so significant it almost becomes easy to overlook. To attribute GM decisions to something else… typically the fictional cause and effect of the game world.</blockquote>

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