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<blockquote data-quote="Guest&nbsp; 85555" data-source="post: 9629470"><p>Well I am not painting you as the bad guy, but I man annoyed. I accused you of hubris after long frustration with what felt like dismissive remarks. Those happen all the time in these discussions with you and Permerton. Now I will take responsibility for my side of the discussion. When I said blindingly obvious, I said that because this seemed like such an obvious distinction. But that probably didn't help the conversation. So fair enough I shouldn't have said that. Hubris I used because I dont' think you or Pemerton realize how condescending you sound sometimes in these discussions, and I do think you guys have such abject certainty in you conclusions that it sometimes blinds you to the fact that some people have also thought about this stuff but don't agree with you assessment. Maybe hubris is too strong. Perhaps I should have just focused on the issue of certainty. You guys kind of have this "I was blinded but now I see" attitude combined with a "you guys just don't realize what is actually going on when you play because you haven't made connections X or Y that we have". And so much of the argumentation in threads like this are about language more than anything else. Pemerton makes good arguments because he is a professional law professor and knows how to control the language of the discussion. But I don't think his arguments get at the truth anymore than mine (but I can admit I don't have the rhetorical skill he does, I just have lived long enough to realize when that kind of rhetoric is being used on me)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guest 85555, post: 9629470"] Well I am not painting you as the bad guy, but I man annoyed. I accused you of hubris after long frustration with what felt like dismissive remarks. Those happen all the time in these discussions with you and Permerton. Now I will take responsibility for my side of the discussion. When I said blindingly obvious, I said that because this seemed like such an obvious distinction. But that probably didn't help the conversation. So fair enough I shouldn't have said that. Hubris I used because I dont' think you or Pemerton realize how condescending you sound sometimes in these discussions, and I do think you guys have such abject certainty in you conclusions that it sometimes blinds you to the fact that some people have also thought about this stuff but don't agree with you assessment. Maybe hubris is too strong. Perhaps I should have just focused on the issue of certainty. You guys kind of have this "I was blinded but now I see" attitude combined with a "you guys just don't realize what is actually going on when you play because you haven't made connections X or Y that we have". And so much of the argumentation in threads like this are about language more than anything else. Pemerton makes good arguments because he is a professional law professor and knows how to control the language of the discussion. But I don't think his arguments get at the truth anymore than mine (but I can admit I don't have the rhetorical skill he does, I just have lived long enough to realize when that kind of rhetoric is being used on me) [/QUOTE]
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