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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9630700" data-attributes="member: 6790260">I was given to understand that you, and others, were claiming that it is perfectly, 100% in keeping with that, and that I was somehow being bullheaded about it.If you actually agree with the given assertion, then I'm perfectly fine leaving the point.Okay? I don't see how this helps anything. Just because some tables might not agree that absolutely any participant can do this, doesn't mean it can't happen. Even if the power were absolutely always restricted to the Keeper, it would still be broad, functionally unlimited retcon power. Any retcon which is on-genre (which is hardly even worthy of the word "constraint") is perfectly valid, and gated only by winning an opposed die roll.Okay. I don't see how this prevents the frequently-repeated example of a third-act reversal reveal, which is genre-appropriate but completely invalidates any prior effort to get to the ultimate answer. I don't care whether such a power is held only by the GM or by all players or gated by dice or whatever else. That it can be so casually swept away--in a way that people have repeatedly cited in this thread as a perfectly acceptable, reasonable, genre-appropriate (etc.) alteration to the fiction.This seems to me an arbitrary exclusion simply because the game is of one type and not another. But fine, whatever. I'm frankly growing rather tired of participating in this conversation to begin with.Then I disagree with both of these things. I think RPGing can be completely compatible with solving a pure logic puzzle, and I find it quite enjoyable when I am able to do that very thing.And I don't see why that comparison is in any way "absurd". The facts of our world already exist. Sure, they aren't as cleanly and overtly presented as a crossword, but a well-structured mystery novel isn't as cleanly and overtly presented as a crossword either. A significant part of solving either thing--a logic puzzle or a confusing area of physics or mathematics or whatever else--is getting the information in the first place, asking the right kinds of questions, being open enough to consider paths you had neglected, not being so precious about your preconceived notions that you can't recognize that you really had been actually wrong all along (as opposed to someone, any participant, changing the fiction in such a way that you have become always wrong all along, but weren't beforehand.)</blockquote>

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