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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 9632209" data-attributes="member: 6785785">But it's literally what's happening at the table. It's a conversation. There's back and forth... you say something, that prompts a response from me, and then my response prompts one from you, and so on. If we're talking about what is actually happening between the participants, this is what it is. Prompting is a hell of a lot more accurate than "organic". So it's more a case of the GM decides:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">if there is a camera- possibly using or designing a means to determine this</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">if the camera captured anything- again possibly using or designing a means to determine this</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">how useful the information is- again possibly using or designing a means to determine this</li> </ul>And what guides him is:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">what has been prepared</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">some sense of logic</li> </ul>That's possible! I don't know if my numbers would be as optimistic as yours, but there's no way we can know. I feel that a process that can, without any form of randomization, produce the opposite results as both being acceptable outcomes has to be at least a bit flawed. Now if a mechanic of some sort is introduced, then a variety of results would make more sense. Sure! This is why I described what the players are doing as "prompting the GM" rather than "introducing a clue". Ultimately, the GM is the one to decide or otherwise determine that there is a clue to be had as a result of the cameras being present. This is why I'm asking what the players can do. I mean, we're talking about the kind of scenario with a lot of things predetermined... by necessity, according to you. So that would seem to limit what the players can actually do to at least some extent. And I say that simply as a fact, not that it's a bad thing. If it is what provides the enjoyment of play... solving the mystery... then that's the way play has to work. Perhaps another way to put this is that in this case, the boundlessness of an RPG is being intentionally limited? That would seem accurate to me... but I expect you will object to the language used in some way. Yes, I agree. I don't think I'm overstating how much the GMs do or that I've underselling the players' ability to contribute. I'm being direct and honest about what I see there. Now... whether that's a problem or not is up to the individual. I certainly predetermine a lot more when I run Mothership than when I run Band of Blades, and then I predetermine even less when I run Spire. I don't think that my players are suffering for lack of agency when we play Mothership... it works the way it does, and it's enjoyable in its own way. I think I've made it clear that I consider it the GM introducing a clue based on the players' question about the camera. [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER]  has disagreed. He's also stated that saying no would be bad faith GMing (I'm assuming he means if the presence of a camera would be logical per the setting and situation). I agree that this is somewhere that the players have some power. But in a way, it's limited to areas where the GM didn't already think of something. I've just been pointing out how much GM authorship/decision-making factors into play, and how easy it can be to overlook it. Similar to the OP and how the alarm spell works. So much is left up to the GM, and many games lack clear and concise advice to guide GMs in their decision making.</blockquote>

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