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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 9639798" data-attributes="member: 6915329">So, OK, is there that much of a difference between the two games? At least in this particular instance? I imagine that in Torchbearer, the GM still gets to decide what form the danger takes, right? Or do the PCs in Torchbearer get to say "welp, that roll sucked, guess we're being attacked by hungry goblins tonight."(just as an FYI, the quote you're responding to was misattributed to me.) But re: the difference in wording between the 5.14 and, I'm assuming, the 5.24 version of pass without trace, I personally wouldn't consider either "a veil of shadows or  silence" or "a concealing aura" to be mechanics. Those are both purely descriptive, and I can easily see ignoring that in favor of a player-granted description. Say, a druid saying that targets magical, shifting camouflage. The mechanics is the +10 bonus to Stealth.Well, some, but nowhere near all. Unintelligent monsters, opportunistic but low-magic bandits, a bear (or owlbear) because the PCs forgot to hang their food from a tree...In terms of "which spell does the better job of making a night-time attack more interesting and/or fun." One where the players determine if there's an attack or one where the GM does?Like, OK, another question. In Torchbearer, assume that the players succeed on their camping roll. No attacks in the middle of the night. I can imagine this means that the camp is suitably concealed or built into a safe location. (I'm not even going to ask if there are different modifiers for "dense, hilly forest with lots of hidey-holes" and "wide-open plains"). Can I, as the GM, describe an intruder poking around looking for, but failing to find/enter the camp? Or say the PCs find footprints nearby the next morning?In D&D, I know I can do that. In fact, I've done something similar--a pesky fey who decided to leave a note on their tiny hut. But since the player's "decide" if there's an encounter or other trouble during the night, would I as GM be allowed to take over that way? Like I said, I know nothing of TB.</blockquote>

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