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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9820134" data-attributes="member: 6779310">that also opens up a delay negotiating when the GM and player don't agree on what the suitable roll is.D&D 4 had a lot of pushback that was based upon sales decisions: No OGL, no PDF, a subscription character editor, rather long power descriptions nearly necessitating said character editor (or a PDF to copy from), and the high core price...It developed a firm fanbase of its own, and sold, per WotC, quite well at first, and moderately well throughout. You don't get DMG vol 2 and PHB  vol 3 in a system without a fanbase. it's first year was said to have outsold both 3.0 and 3.5 individual first year sales, by Mearls, in a discussion of 5e.A player facing D&D isn't likely to go over well, I agree, even tho' it's a couple small optional rules to do so. Mostly just changing monster saves to a form of penetration roll, and rolling armor rather than the the GM rolling to hit. It was a serious conceptual leap for my DL5A and Talisman Adventures players...</blockquote>