Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
GM Prep Time - Cognitive Dissonance in Encounter Design?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 5188956" data-attributes="member: 3424"><p>Okay, I'm going to cite some concrete examples, here. If you wish to pursue this line of argument, please feel free to cite your own. Let's look at some monsters starting with the letter "B":</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Barghest</strong> (3e): Bite (Atk); Bite and claws (Full Atk); Various spell-like abilities (<em>blink</em>, <em>levitate</em>, <em>misdirection</em>, <em>rage</em>, <em>charm monster</em>, <em>crushing despair</em>, <em>dimension door</em>)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Barghest Savager</strong> (4e): <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Bite; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Battleaxe; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/m.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":melee:" title="Melee :melee:" data-shortname=":melee:" /> Jump Strike; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/m.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":melee:" title="Melee :melee:" data-shortname=":melee:" /> Power Feed; Change Shape</p><p>Here is one example of how a spellcaster-type monster got its power list trimmed down.</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Basilisk</strong> (3e): Bite (Atk); Petrifying gaze (SA)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Stone-Eye Basilisk</strong> (4e): <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Bite; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/c.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":close:" title="Close :close:" data-shortname=":close:" /> Petrifying Gaze</p><p>Here, there is virtually no difference in terms of combat options. The same goes for the other 4e basilisk, the Venom-Eye Basilisk.</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Behir</strong> (3e): Bite (Atk); Breath weapon (SA); Constrict (SA); Improved Grab (SA); Rake (SA); Swallow Whole (SA)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Behir</strong> (4e): <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Claw; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/m.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":melee:" title="Melee :melee:" data-shortname=":melee:" /> Bite; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/m.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":melee:" title="Melee :melee:" data-shortname=":melee:" /> Devour; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/c.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":close:" title="Close :close:" data-shortname=":close:" /> Lightning Breath; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/c.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":close:" title="Close :close:" data-shortname=":close:" /> Thundering Stomp</p><p>Again, the two have an approximately similar number of options, especially when you take into account the fact that in 3e, Improved Grab triggers automatically on a successful Bite and be considered a subset of that ability.</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Bodak</strong> (3e): Slam (Atk); Death gaze (SA)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Bodak Reaver</strong> (4e): <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Greataxe; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/r.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":ranged:" title="Ranged :ranged:" data-shortname=":ranged:" /> Death Gaze</p><p>Once again, there is very little difference in terms of combat options. The other 4e bodak, the bodak skulk, is a lurker and has an additional option to turn invisible and gain the insubstantial and phasing qualities.</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Bralani</strong> (3e): <em>+1 holy scimitar</em> or <em>+1 holy composite longbow</em> (Atk); Whirlwind blast (SA); Various spell-like abilities (<em>blur</em>, <em>charm person</em>, <em>gust of wind</em>, <em>mirror image</em>, <em>wind wall</em>, <em>lightning bolt</em>, <em>cure serious wounds</em>) </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Bralani of Autumn Winds</strong> (4e): <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Longsword; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/r.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":ranged:" title="Ranged :ranged:" data-shortname=":ranged:" /> Autumn Chill; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/c.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":close:" title="Close :close:" data-shortname=":close:" /> Whirlwind Blast; Fey Step</p><p>Here is another example of a primarily spellcasting creature that got its combat options reduced.</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Bugbear</strong> (3e): Morningstar or javelin (Atk)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Bugbear Warrior</strong> (4e): <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Morningstar; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/m.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":melee:" title="Melee :melee:" data-shortname=":melee:" /> Skullthumper; Predatory Eye</p><p>Here is one example of a primarily melee monster that had its number of combat options increased. The other 4e bugbear in the MM, the bugbear strangler, gets Morningstar, Predatory Eye and two other, related combat options (Strangle and Body Shield).</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Bulette</strong> (3e): Bite (Atk); Bite and claws (Full Atk); Leap (SA)</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><strong>Bulette</strong> (4e): <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/bm.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":bmelee:" title="Basic Melee :bmelee:" data-shortname=":bmelee:" /> Bite; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/c.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":close:" title="Close :close:" data-shortname=":close:" /> Rising Burst; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/m.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":melee:" title="Melee :melee:" data-shortname=":melee:" /> Earth Furrow; Second Wind</p><p>Here's another primarily melee monster that was given more combat options in 4e.</p><p></p><p>So, to recap, for the SRD monsters starting with the letter "B":</p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Increased combat options: Bugbear, Bulette - primarily melee monsters, IMO</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Decreased combat options: Barghest, Bralani - primarily spellcasting monsters, IMO</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">About the same number of combat options: Basilisk, Behir, Bodak - monsters with signature magical abilities.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Not (yet?) converted: Belker, Blink Dog</p><p>And before you asked, I picked "B" because it was the first file I opened (the "A" monsters were in a file entitled "MonstersIntro-A") and the list of monsters was fairly short. I do have a life outside of ENWorld, you know. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FireLance, post: 5188956, member: 3424"] Okay, I'm going to cite some concrete examples, here. If you wish to pursue this line of argument, please feel free to cite your own. Let's look at some monsters starting with the letter "B": [INDENT][B]Barghest[/B] (3e): Bite (Atk); Bite and claws (Full Atk); Various spell-like abilities ([I]blink[/I], [I]levitate[/I], [I]misdirection[/I], [I]rage[/I], [I]charm monster[/I], [I]crushing despair[/I], [I]dimension door[/I]) [B]Barghest Savager[/B] (4e): :bmelee: Bite; :bmelee: Battleaxe; :melee: Jump Strike; :melee: Power Feed; Change Shape[/INDENT]Here is one example of how a spellcaster-type monster got its power list trimmed down. [INDENT][B]Basilisk[/B] (3e): Bite (Atk); Petrifying gaze (SA) [B]Stone-Eye Basilisk[/B] (4e): :bmelee: Bite; :close: Petrifying Gaze[/INDENT]Here, there is virtually no difference in terms of combat options. The same goes for the other 4e basilisk, the Venom-Eye Basilisk. [INDENT][B]Behir[/B] (3e): Bite (Atk); Breath weapon (SA); Constrict (SA); Improved Grab (SA); Rake (SA); Swallow Whole (SA) [B]Behir[/B] (4e): :bmelee: Claw; :melee: Bite; :melee: Devour; :close: Lightning Breath; :close: Thundering Stomp[/INDENT]Again, the two have an approximately similar number of options, especially when you take into account the fact that in 3e, Improved Grab triggers automatically on a successful Bite and be considered a subset of that ability. [INDENT][B]Bodak[/B] (3e): Slam (Atk); Death gaze (SA) [B]Bodak Reaver[/B] (4e): :bmelee: Greataxe; :ranged: Death Gaze[/INDENT]Once again, there is very little difference in terms of combat options. The other 4e bodak, the bodak skulk, is a lurker and has an additional option to turn invisible and gain the insubstantial and phasing qualities. [INDENT][B]Bralani[/B] (3e): [I]+1 holy scimitar[/I] or [I]+1 holy composite longbow[/I] (Atk); Whirlwind blast (SA); Various spell-like abilities ([I]blur[/I], [I]charm person[/I], [I]gust of wind[/I], [I]mirror image[/I], [I]wind wall[/I], [I]lightning bolt[/I], [I]cure serious wounds[/I]) [B]Bralani of Autumn Winds[/B] (4e): :bmelee: Longsword; :ranged: Autumn Chill; :close: Whirlwind Blast; Fey Step[/INDENT]Here is another example of a primarily spellcasting creature that got its combat options reduced. [INDENT][B]Bugbear[/B] (3e): Morningstar or javelin (Atk) [B]Bugbear Warrior[/B] (4e): :bmelee: Morningstar; :melee: Skullthumper; Predatory Eye[/INDENT]Here is one example of a primarily melee monster that had its number of combat options increased. The other 4e bugbear in the MM, the bugbear strangler, gets Morningstar, Predatory Eye and two other, related combat options (Strangle and Body Shield). [INDENT][B]Bulette[/B] (3e): Bite (Atk); Bite and claws (Full Atk); Leap (SA) [B]Bulette[/B] (4e): :bmelee: Bite; :close: Rising Burst; :melee: Earth Furrow; Second Wind[/INDENT]Here's another primarily melee monster that was given more combat options in 4e. So, to recap, for the SRD monsters starting with the letter "B": [INDENT]Increased combat options: Bugbear, Bulette - primarily melee monsters, IMO Decreased combat options: Barghest, Bralani - primarily spellcasting monsters, IMO About the same number of combat options: Basilisk, Behir, Bodak - monsters with signature magical abilities. Not (yet?) converted: Belker, Blink Dog[/INDENT]And before you asked, I picked "B" because it was the first file I opened (the "A" monsters were in a file entitled "MonstersIntro-A") and the list of monsters was fairly short. I do have a life outside of ENWorld, you know. :p [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
GM Prep Time - Cognitive Dissonance in Encounter Design?
Top
