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<blockquote data-quote="Sir Wulf" data-source="post: 5190043" data-attributes="member: 78791">I would like to thank everyone who has helped keep this discussion civil and productive. It has helped me see ways to use encounters more effectively in 4E.&nbsp;At risk of digressing, how much DM fiat do you allow yourselves when an encounter doesn't seem to challenge your players? When I've run 4E, I've repeatedly faced situations where the party beat their foes with all the challenge of a hunter clubbing a baby harp seal. While I appreciate that the PCs sometimes enjoy a chance to show off just how badass they are, these encounters were kind of a drag.&nbsp;As an example, the party faced a group of orc raiders and berserkers. One party member used an ability that made terrain difficult for their foes, but not for them. The party's controller repeatedly pushed the orcs away, generally leaving them just the wrong distance to charge. The poor orcs couldn't reach their foes to swing their axes. Handaxes were thrown (to little effect), but then they could do nothing but stagger around and die. &nbsp;At the time, I didn't see a way for the orcs to challenge the party. (At the time, I had overlooked that charging is allowed over difficult terrain in 4E, something pointed out to me after the fight). Since the way the difficult terrain power worked wasn't detailed, I couldn't use &quot;out of the box&quot; strategies to overcome it and restore some challenge to the encounter. A few more handaxes or details the berserkers could seize upon to overcome the difficult terrain power (Heroic leaps past the icy ground? Striding atop the bodies littering the floor?) would have made a huge difference. &nbsp;Without much fluff describing how the powers work, the orcs are limited to variations on &quot;I attack&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sir Wulf, post: 5190043, member: 78791"] I would like to thank everyone who has helped keep this discussion civil and productive. It has helped me see ways to use encounters more effectively in 4E. At risk of digressing, how much DM fiat do you allow yourselves when an encounter doesn't seem to challenge your players? When I've run 4E, I've repeatedly faced situations where the party beat their foes with all the challenge of a hunter clubbing a baby harp seal. While I appreciate that the PCs sometimes enjoy a chance to show off just how badass they are, these encounters were kind of a drag. As an example, the party faced a group of orc raiders and berserkers. One party member used an ability that made terrain difficult for their foes, but not for them. The party's controller repeatedly pushed the orcs away, generally leaving them just the wrong distance to charge. The poor orcs couldn't reach their foes to swing their axes. Handaxes were thrown (to little effect), but then they could do nothing but stagger around and die. At the time, I didn't see a way for the orcs to challenge the party. (At the time, I had overlooked that charging is allowed over difficult terrain in 4E, something pointed out to me after the fight). Since the way the difficult terrain power worked wasn't detailed, I couldn't use "out of the box" strategies to overcome it and restore some challenge to the encounter. A few more handaxes or details the berserkers could seize upon to overcome the difficult terrain power (Heroic leaps past the icy ground? Striding atop the bodies littering the floor?) would have made a huge difference. Without much fluff describing how the powers work, the orcs are limited to variations on "I attack". [/QUOTE]

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