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Message: <blockquote data-quote="chaochou" data-source="post: 7512132" data-attributes="member: 99817">It's worth being aware of how Fail Forward as a technique is largely incompatible with GM-sided plot control techniques.It should be self-evident that if the GM is the source of a) all the content including b) the characters' reasons for doing everything (everything plot-related anyway) then 'failing forward' reveals more GM content which they actually expect the players to 'earn' by having characters succeed.This explains why some are adamant that fail forward = success with complications. Because when GM (via the 'scenario or 'plot' or 'adventure') is the actual source of the character's protoganism, it happens to be true.But if the player is the source of their character's protaganism, then fail forward works as being discussed in the thread. The player has a stated goal and the GM disrupts reaching it (or the action succeeds, but without realizing its assumed purpose) without reference to their own ulterior motive or pre-scripted 'plot'.To give an example, let's say the character is trying to meet the duke to talk to him about something or other.Fail forward version 1:Player: I talk to the chamberlain about an audience with the duke (fails charisma, persuade, oratory etc)GM (Chamberlain): The Duke is thinking about his next move in a very important game of chess being played by correspondence with the neighbouring Dukedom. Do you play? I'll show you the current position - find a winning line and I'll grant the audience. Cheating? My dear fellow, you don't think the Dukes actually think of the moves, do you?Fail forward version 2:Player: I talk to the chamberlain about an audience with the duke (fails charisma, persuade, oratory etc)GM (Chamberlain): Very well, follow me! (Leads the character through where a shocking demonic horde is controlling the Duke and his retinue in mind-wrenchingly terrible ways).If a pre-scripted plot is underway then with either 1 or 2 all that's happened is the GM has revealed more of their material (and possibly a 'big reveal' moment) on the basis of a 'fail', when the playstyle is that the players have to earn the next bit of scripted storyline by 'winning' or 'succeeding'.In the playstyle in which fail forward is suited, either 1 or 2 are the improvised or semi-improvised responses to player interests (chess or puzzles or the neighbouring Duke, demonic possession). So they represent a failure for the character, while also being a significant change of situation tied to their established interests.</blockquote>

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