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Message: <blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 9746164" data-attributes="member: 86653">Exactly. The referee makes a long string of decisions to determine basically everything except what the player decides their PC does. And if the referee decides a roll is proper, they also decide all the variables and factors involved in that roll. But yes, once the dice fly...it's up to the dice. Given all the decisions the referee is expected to make for even a single roll, the notion of "I don't like the referee deciding things" is simply nonsensical in the context of RPGs. I can see an argument for both dice and roleplaying being important, especially in social situations, but at no point should the dice be the only factor. If you RP kicking a guard in the nuts it doesn't matter than your persuasion bonus is a +49 and you rolled a natural 20. You're getting tossed in the jail. I really do like the 2014 DMG section on social interactions with the advice to also include third-person roleplaying rather than only first-person roleplaying. To me it solves the awkward player running a social character. I don't need the players to be thespians, but I do need the players to do more actual role-playing than shouting "I persuade, nat 20!" I'm 100% fine with a player saying, "Bobert the Bard will try to bribe the guard and jingle a sack of coins." But then that leads straight back to the other thread about intent/goal and approach...</blockquote>