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Message: <blockquote data-quote="loverdrive" data-source="post: 9751477" data-attributes="member: 7027139">Many things involve skills that can't be measured. That in itself is not a problem or slight against them. But in a context of a game, without a clear measurement of success, what constitutes a "skill" becomes nebulous and "skilled play" becomes meaningless.If we conceptualize a game of skill as a conversation, where you argue your point, like, "I believe this sequence of moves is optimal!" and your opponent answers, like, "Not if you consider this!", then it becomes pretty clear that it just doesn't work in dnd: the conversation is one-sided — player is the only one who has to actually argue their point, while GM can just crush him like a bug regardless of what he's saying.Different groups playing with the same GM measures only one thing: their ability to play with that specific GM. A similar thing can be observed in games build for competitive play: my boyfriend is reasonably good at beating me in fighting games because he's playing against me a lot (hey, it's my sacred duty as a woman to replace man's interests with my own) and had time to learn how I play. He also gets absolutely bodied by players that aren't me.I must stress that a game being skill-based or not isn't a value judgement, but an analysis one. If we don't want to create a game where players can actually play to win, get better, then the lense that we should be using for both the design and the analysis.</blockquote>

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