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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The Firebird" data-source="post: 9751582" data-attributes="member: 7015803">My point was that a measurement can be done in RPGs. It just typically isn't. The last part gets at a key divide I see in approaches to RPGs. In my games, the GM can't crush the player like a bug regardless, because they are bound by formal and informal rules. Formal: if an opponent tries to hit, they must attack vs AC. Informal: if a particular enemy wasn't noted (perhaps privately, in GM facing notes) before the encounter, the GM cannot introduce that enemy to provide a greater challenge. The informal rules are crucial when thinking about what OSR types mean by skilled play.They also aren't used in many games with other types of skilled play (e.g., skilled tactical play). I've seen examples, I recall a Colville video, and a Level Up game I was a player in, where boss monsters had actions which brought in additional minions. Not via summons, just like a goblin boss calling two more goblins each round. This would break an informal rule in the games I run--the goblins did not exist before the action was taken. But in a skilled tactical game they provide interesting choices and challenges for the players. Adding these informal rules makes it at least more feasible for players at different tables to encounter similar challenges. They avoid situations where GM Emily decides the mod is a bit easy and adds three wolves while GM Jerry thinks the puzzles are too hard and drops a hint. If that kind of thing is going on then I think it is harder to compare skill, although you can still check how much help the players got.</blockquote>

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