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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6005090" data-attributes="member: 87792">So why do you want others to read your obscure third party game books when you can't even be bothered to keep up with the core content Paizo is putting out?  Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat are not third party, and are not new and therefore are much closer to a default setup for Pathfinder than anything a third party could come up with.  Further, they aren't point buy - and most point buy RPGs can be twisted, folded, and spindled in some really odd directions as the greater flexibility allows players to take things in really unexpected directions.  Also Eclipse is a third party product - and I remember well the reputation 3PP content had for 3.0 and 3.5; the most unbalanced stuff you can find.  (And woe betide the DM who gives people access even to such a respected publisher as Frog God Games, allowing the PCs to summon Gravity Elementals with Summon Monster II). Compounding this is that you didn't offer Eclipse when you started DMing.  Had you said you wanted to try it out with you in the DMs chair and openly dropped it on the table for anyone to use it would probably have been devoured by your players, over half of them would have used it, and you'd probably have been allowed to use it.  But instead you gave your players a set of restrictions that made them chafe and now want to use a book that is way outside the normal rules and even the default assumptions of Pathfinder.  Far more overwhelming than the default player options.</blockquote>

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