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<blockquote data-quote="GuardianLurker" data-source="post: 9204274" data-attributes="member: 786">I'll agree that Fair Judgement isn't a starting skill. Neither is Group Management. However, both are foundational skills, in my mind - basic in the sense that if you haven't acquired them (not mastered, acquired) you can't fully claim to be a GM. Ditto for Rules Competence.Now as an experienced player and GM, I'm more than willing to help a newly growing GM with these. That's part of being an expert/semi-pro/dedicated/responsible(? I'm not sure the right adjective here) GM. But someone without Rules Competence, nor any desire to acquire it, isn't a GM - they're a Director or a Playwright, most likely Improv because of Players, but still not a GM. Directors and Playwrights are closely related classes, but not the same.Nor would I consider 7-10 to be skills that all GMs have. In fact, I don't think I've ever played with a GM that's managed any two of them. I'll also offer that Spotlight Management is as much as a different skill from Group Management, as Painting Minatures and Terrain are from In-Game Props. I'll also disagree that 9 and 10 are table-specific, I've seen too many diverse examples of them for that. Heck - in my opinion, that's one of the reasons the original WoD took off in the 90's; the games did a much better job of supporting more character engagement.As for Expert GM skills, I couldn't really judge that on the basis of the article -it didn't offer any examples. For that matter, we've been talking about 1-10 as skills, not proper Subclasses. If we do that, perhaps a better breakdown might be:A) Gamesman - All about the expression of the mechanics; Encounter design, opponent building, &quot;dungeon&quot; design.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Quote: &quot;Let's Play!&quot; &quot;I've got a cool idea for a combat.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Happy When: The players engage with the encounter. &quot;Man, did you see how I climbed that dragon's neck to stab it in the eye?&quot;B) Director - All about the Story; character interaction, npc portrayal, plot &amp; story, setting/worldbuilding&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Quote: &quot;Your mission...&quot; &quot;I've got a story to tell you.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Happy When: The players engage with the story being told. &quot;I would never have suspected the Baker was actually an Assassin for the Butterfly Guild.&quot;C) Architect - All about the World; world building, homebrewing, setting&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Quote: &quot;So. Where to now?&quot; &quot;Your characters are exploring my world.&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Happy When: The players engage with the world, exploring it. &quot;OK, so dragons and dwarves hate each other because the most valuable ores the dwarves mine are also dragon vitamins?&quot;D) Propsmaster - It's all about making immersion easy; props, minatures, terrain, sounds, etc.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Quote: &quot;Take a look!&quot; &quot;Tah-dah!&quot;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Happy When: The players engage with their props. &quot;Wait, guys, this loose anchor by the goose feather in the painting has to mean something. They're the only things actually illuminated by the lantern.&quot;In this, the &quot;Basic&quot; skills are ones that every GM - including the beginning ones are expected to have. The &quot;Intermediate&quot; skills are the ones that launch a subclass, and the &quot;Advanced/Expert&quot; skills are the ones reserved to the subclass. As to how many skills are in the class, and how many in a subclass, I don't know.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GuardianLurker, post: 9204274, member: 786"] I'll agree that Fair Judgement isn't a [I]starting[/I] skill. Neither is Group Management. However, both are foundational skills, in my mind - basic in the sense that if you haven't acquired them (not mastered, acquired) you can't fully claim to be a GM. Ditto for Rules Competence. Now as an experienced player and GM, I'm more than willing to help a newly growing GM with these. That's part of being an expert/semi-pro/dedicated/responsible(? I'm not sure the right adjective here) GM. But someone without Rules Competence, nor any desire to acquire it, isn't a GM - they're a Director or a Playwright, most likely Improv because of Players, but still not a GM. Directors and Playwrights are closely related classes, but not the same. Nor would I consider 7-10 to be skills that all GMs have. In fact, I don't think I've ever played with a GM that's managed any two of them. I'll also offer that Spotlight Management is as much as a different skill from Group Management, as Painting Minatures and Terrain are from In-Game Props. I'll also disagree that 9 and 10 are table-specific, I've seen too many diverse examples of them for that. Heck - in my opinion, that's one of the reasons the original WoD took off in the 90's; the games did a much better job of supporting more character engagement. As for Expert GM skills, I couldn't really judge that on the basis of the article -it didn't offer any examples. For that matter, we've been talking about 1-10 as skills, not proper Subclasses. If we do that, perhaps a better breakdown might be: A) Gamesman - All about the expression of the mechanics; Encounter design, opponent building, "dungeon" design. Quote: "Let's Play!" "I've got a cool idea for a combat." Happy When: The players engage with the encounter. "Man, did you see how I climbed that dragon's neck to stab it in the eye?" B) Director - All about the Story; character interaction, npc portrayal, plot & story, setting/worldbuilding Quote: "Your mission..." "I've got a story to tell you." Happy When: The players engage with the story being told. "I would never have suspected the Baker was actually an Assassin for the Butterfly Guild." C) Architect - All about the World; world building, homebrewing, setting Quote: "So. Where to now?" "Your characters are exploring my world." Happy When: The players engage with the world, exploring it. "OK, so dragons and dwarves hate each other because the most valuable ores the dwarves mine are also dragon vitamins?" D) Propsmaster - It's all about making immersion easy; props, minatures, terrain, sounds, etc. Quote: "Take a look!" "Tah-dah!" Happy When: The players engage with their props. "Wait, guys, this loose anchor by the goose feather in the painting has to mean something. They're the only things actually illuminated by the lantern." In this, the "Basic" skills are ones that every GM - including the beginning ones are expected to have. The "Intermediate" skills are the ones that launch a subclass, and the "Advanced/Expert" skills are the ones reserved to the subclass. As to how many skills are in the class, and how many in a subclass, I don't know. [/QUOTE]

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