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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 8086053" data-attributes="member: 6880599">In every game I have been in as a GM or a player dragons were bosses the party was foreshadowed. D&D absolutely has means "to stop a size H or larger dragon from flapping around doing whatever it wants and leaving when it wants" The second level spell Earthbind immediatly comes to mind since thats what it exists for, Nets and graplling hooks are items in D&D, there is no reason a player can't target a wing and the GM make it fall temporarily or permanently based on the damage. Players have access to fly spell and ranged weapons. so they can reach the target. Even a melee character with a spear or dagger can hold their action to attack when the dragon comes in range. If a party shows up knowing they are fighting flying enemeis of any type without preparation and/or the GM does not allow them to use any of their plans because the rules don't say you can specifically use X to do Y. That's not a problem with flying enemies or D&D, its a problem at that table and its caused by exactly what I am talking about with player expectations of fight everything in 5ft melee. Many people complain about dragons being "weak for CR" while grounding them in boring HP slogs. Preparing to fight as dragon can be fun. the fight itself can be fun. I want my players to bring wagons with baristas mounted on them  weighed down with rocks and firing poision tipped harpoons with covered in hooks and trying to bring it to the ground then casting hold moster on it to keep it there.  .... that is leaps and bounds more interesting then Ancient intelegnet creatures who can fly desidding the best stratagy for fighting these heroes is to stand there and take it to the face. Flight is a huger part of what justifies their CR and what makes them terrifying. If your taking that away your declawing them and making it boring. If the GM is surprised by a dragon is should be a big event and players should consider running because they are not prepared. Your argument here is exactly the kind of boring fighting I don't want as a player and would be bored to as a GM that would burn me out.You do realize you just complained about not having interesting options and then complained because I offered options and now its complicated. If your afraid of complication, run smaller encounter with more options so you have less to track but more flexibility. It's only as complicated as you make it. Your caliming zero tolerance here like their is no middle ground. Adding some fighters with 10ft reach is bearly an adjustment. Archers are barely an adjustment. Casters don't have to have full spell lists. One caster with 3-4 spells in place of five 5ft melee casters is less to track and easier to run with way more variation in combat.I did not say run 1 CR10 monster against you level 10 party. My advice for boss fights was 2-3 bosses. If your running 2-3 CR 6 monsters instead of one CR10 monster you will notice the HP piles are alot smaller and devided by 3 so it is possible for the party to target on take it down and lower the threat. The "HP Bag problem" is caused by you having one bad guy boss fighting the party and your raising it to the highest CR to create a challenge for your players. Layer actions, terrain, simple tactics like polearm triangles, having just a few ranged units on clifts, or a could of stealthy units disappearing into shadows then attacking a single party member can make lower CR enemies without giant HP bags a serious threat AND it doesn't have to be ton of enemies or complicated.This was my point from the start. If you look again one of the first things I said is stop running 20 5ft melee goblins because your getting tired of tracking them, your bored, and the end result it uninteresting combat. Run 4 goblins with 4 different ability sets against your party is easier to run, more fun, and with a little variation a real threat to your party. Especially if one is Niblog. Even if its not supper hard for the party they can still feel the tension if you target single party members because even if they know they the party will win they don't want to lose a party member or be the one that drops.I agree motives is an awesome suggestion I am glad it was mentioned. I disagree that its the only thing that makes fights interesting. You saying that makes you sound like a story GM (which is not a bad thing, its just what you prefer), however, mechanically interesting and varied combat can absolutely be fun for both players and GM as a point of fact the entire tire war games industry is based on that. Mage-Knight, Hero-clicks, Warhammer, Warhammer 4dK, Zombiecide, the Xcom series video games, hero academy, along with every other turn based tactical board game or video game ever made represent multi milion dollar industry based on the fact that varied and more mechanically interesting combat is engaging and fun.  I mean chess is over 1500 years old and is exactly that and loved by many this day. No one asks what the motives of the black and white kingdoms are. ... they just enjoy the tactical combat.D&D is not zombicide or chess, but 1/3 of D&D is based on that concept. Just like Xcom 2 for example, story gives the tactical combat more meaning and tactical combat gives then story more impact. I would argue that D&D is better then any game that only take one of the three pillars. The three pillars of D&D being Story, tactical combat, and character creation.  I truly enjoy RPGs more when I get to make my own character and my character impacts the world of the RPG. If your shorting your table one of these your players are suffering a loss. Not every player loves all 3 pillars the same and not all pillers need the same weight at any table, but D&D is greatly hurt when one is too diminished and empowered when all 3 stand strong.I am also did not say you have to have as many options as a chess board. Only that you have at least 3 different tactical styles if you have more than 2 enemies for your party to fight. If you have two, I recommend them not be the same. My rule #1 is that that you don't have to fallow all the rules all the time. You should just aim to use them as much as you can. You could have 10 enemies with 10 different roles for a single fight, but a minimum of 3 with 3 roles (meaning one or two different abilities different), some terrain, and at least motive for the encounter ... is not a huge ask.</blockquote>

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