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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 8087183" data-attributes="member: 16814">I just look at it as the things the characters do belong to the pillars and the things the players do belong to the meta or the maintenance structures of the game.&nbsp; I fully agree that meta discussions impact that game -- that's usually the point of the meta.&nbsp; I don't think it belongs in a pillar of the game because those are governed by the rules of the game and the meta is about the rules of the game.&nbsp; When I talk about how I'm going to GM and talk about how the pillars of play are used, that's entirely about what the characters are doing -- I'm not going to GM the meta because I don't have any authorities there.&nbsp; So, if I'm talking about GMing a game, and how social pillar structures work in game, I'm not going to include anything the players do (outside of declare actions for their PCs, of course). I wouldn't call this narrow so much as specific as to which things go where.&nbsp; Ultimately, it really only matters in how you're going to think about your games -- if you think that letting the players talk about their PCs out-of-game satisfies your table's social pillar needs, cool.&nbsp; I will focus on how to put the PCs in a social challenge to satisfy that pillar regardless of how much my player discuss at the meta level.&nbsp; To me, challenging the PCs is where the game is, and I'm not going to count the meta as part of that.&nbsp; Keeps me focused on play techniques.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 8087183, member: 16814"] I just look at it as the things the characters do belong to the pillars and the things the players do belong to the meta or the maintenance structures of the game. I fully agree that meta discussions impact that game -- that's usually the point of the meta. I don't think it belongs in a pillar of the game because those are governed by the rules of the game and the meta is about the rules of the game. When I talk about how I'm going to GM and talk about how the pillars of play are used, that's entirely about what the characters are doing -- I'm not going to GM the meta because I don't have any authorities there. So, if I'm talking about GMing a game, and how social pillar structures work in game, I'm not going to include anything the players do (outside of declare actions for their PCs, of course). I wouldn't call this narrow so much as specific as to which things go where. Ultimately, it really only matters in how you're going to think about your games -- if you think that letting the players talk about their PCs out-of-game satisfies your table's social pillar needs, cool. I will focus on how to put the PCs in a social challenge to satisfy that pillar regardless of how much my player discuss at the meta level. To me, challenging the PCs is where the game is, and I'm not going to count the meta as part of that. Keeps me focused on play techniques. [/QUOTE]

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