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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 6011034" data-attributes="member: 92305">A Look At Massive DamageMuch ado has been made about the Massive Damage threshold in the Conan RPG. Set at a mere 20 points of damage, some have posited that the game is broken because of this.I beg to differ.Here's why.First off, if your character has at least one Fate Point, failing the Massive Damage save will most likely not kill your character because you will spend your point using the Left For Dead option. This makes player characters greatly resistant to instant death by Massive Damage as long as the character still has at least one Fate Point. The use of the Fate Point in this manner does not guarrantee the character survives, but it does skew the situation in the character's favor.Second, and contrary to what some have stated about the game, the Massive Damage threshold of 20+ points of damage is not easy to obtain without rolling a critical success (and, I think we all would agree that Massive Damage should be a possible outcome of a successful critical hit). Remember, though, even Critical Hits require a successful check.How can I make the claim that Massive Damage is not easy to obtain?Let's take a closer look.Pg. 11-12 of the 2E Core Rulebook tells us that the average character is 3rd level or less. And, I've established above an average range of stats for the average human. Let's take the highest score in each category and give that character a formidable weapon, then see how easy it is for him to score Massive Damage on a foe.This means we'll have a 3rd level character with STR 15 (+2 damage). Characters need Feats for differing reasons, but let's max out this average character's damage by giving him Power Attack. So, we've got a Hyborian, he dominate race in the game world, and we'll make him a 3rd level Soldier with STR 15 and Power Attack as one of his Feats. We'll give him a weapon with the highest damage in the entire game: the greatsword (which Hyborians can treat as a Martial Weapon) which does damage of 1d10 + 1d8. That's a pretty strong "average" character, given the guidelines set forth in the game and what I've commented upon above.But, I want to use this strong character to make the point.As a 3rd level Soldier, the character can take up to a -3 on his attack in order to gain a +3 on damage.So....Let's assume that this character's target...1. Was hit by our sample character, in spite of the -3 attack penalty.2. Was not Fighting Defensively or using Total Defense, which would make the target even harder to hit.3. Was not wearing armor (or was wearing armor that was defeated by the character's blow and allowed 20+ points of damage to penetrate past the armor).Those three issues, right there (hitting in spite of penalties and armor protection), in part, keep the Massive Damage rule from being abused...but, let's say that our average human character (albeit on the high side of human "average") has been successful with a hit.What is his damage?He averages 10 points with the greatsword, +3 points for his STR, +3 points for the Power Attack bonus. This is an average of 16 points. That's not enough to trigger Massive Damage.Let's keep looking at this, though....Let's say that the character hits, in spite the penalties to the attack throw. And, let's say that the character rolls higher than average damage, in spite of any armor worn by the target, scoring 20 points of damage.In order for Massive Damage to be triggered, the target still has to fail a DC 20 Fort Save (which, I'll grant you, is likely to be failed...but there's still a chance).Even with the Fort Save failed, it is not a guarrantee that the target dies. Player Characters have Fate Points that can be used to re-roll a failed Fort Save. So a PC with Fate Points, hit with Massive damage, can have two tries at making the Fort Save, if a Fate Point is used.Or, as I said above, the Fate Point could be used to have the character appear dead, but actually be Left For Dead. But, even if we're talking about an NPC or a PC that is out of Fate Points, the failed Massive Damage save still does not guarrantee death. A failed Fort Save is 90% likely to leave the character dying in the -1 to -9 hit point range rather than killing him outright. Thus, given the stabilization rules, the character gains a 10% chance per point above -10 to stabilize himself. If a comrade is around to help stabilize and heal the character, his chances of survival are even greater.So, what am I saying?I'm saying that...1. Penalties on the attack throw make death from Massive Damage less likely.2. Armor makes death from Massive Damage less likely.3. The Fort Saving throw makes death from Massive Damage less likely.4. Fate Points make death from Massive Damage less likely.5. Many weapons in the game are not likely to produce 20+ damage points, making death from Massive Damage less likely.6. The Stabilization rules make death from Massive Damage less likely....and all a character has to do is succeed in one area. If he does, his character will not die from Massive Damage.EDIT: Many of us are influenced by the Conan RPG's parent game, but we must remember that the two are separate games with different rules in many areas.For example, in the tradition 3.5 D&D game, a character's weapons typically become more and more powerful as the character adventures and finds better, more powerful equipment. The character levels, and his BAB increases, but also the D&D plus on his weapons increase: He may start with a normal longsword, then find a +1 weapon. Later, he finds a +2, then a +3 weapon. Sometimes, the weapons have more powers than just increasing both attack probability and the amount of damage the weapon delivers on the character's foes.But, in Conan, once a weapon is chosen, the damage does not increase. Sure, the character's BAB increases, but the weapon's damage and probability to hit stays the same. Feats, like Power Attack, are needed to obtain extra damage, but even this is limited by the character's BAB and provides a corresponding penalty to the attack throw.And, besides the use of Power Attack, there is little in the game to increase damage besides the occasional increase in stats (every two levels, starting at 4th, depending on the player's choice).Therefore, in many cases (not all), Massive Damage does not really become easier to achieve as the character levels. Special abilities are needed, like superhuman STR, exotic or hard-to-find weapons, and Feats like Power Attack, to skew a weapon's damage towards scoring Massive Damage often. Remember that as a character levels, his BAB increases, but this only increases the chance that the character will hit. It does not increase damage. Also remember that, as characters level, their ACs for Dodge and Parry also increase, making them harder to hit...while damage remains the same.This, given all that I've said in this post, I maintain that the Massive Damage rule in Conan is fairly balanced.</blockquote>

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