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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6011952" data-attributes="member: 4937">You don't know how many times I've been in this argument on EnWorld.&nbsp; Half the time people are accusing me of saying that DM's have the right to abuse players.&nbsp; Half the time people are accusing me of saying that players have the right to abuse DMs.&nbsp; I've gotten to the point where I think this is a pretty meaningless argument, with goal posts that shift continually.&nbsp; I agree with you that the GM is a player as well.&nbsp; I'll even go so far as to say that the GM is the most important player in the game, with the bigger stake in the game, and the greater expectation of control over the game as a result of that.&nbsp; I'm a DM 95% of the time, and I assure you that I'm no door mat for anyone.&nbsp; However, what we are discussing here is the player's characters.&nbsp; A line has to be drawn over the DM's authority somewhere, because the players are players too.&nbsp;&nbsp; And for me that line is drawn hard and sharp at the player's characters.&nbsp; As the DM I control the whole world and this is my right as the DM.&nbsp; I make the world.&nbsp; I animate.&nbsp; I am every NPC in the world.&nbsp; The minute though I start asserting my authority over the PC's, I'm treading in dangerous waters.&nbsp; If the players don't have control over their own characters, then they don't have control over anything.&nbsp; Now, I think we can all agree that the DM can make reasonable demands on the sort of characters that a player creates.&nbsp; For example, the character should fit the setting.&nbsp; The question then is, how reasonable is it for the DM to demand that the players collectively play a synergistic party?&nbsp; Can the DM demand that the player be a cleric, because no one else is a cleric?&nbsp; Can the DM demand that you play a fighter, because the role of wizard is already taken?&nbsp; Can the DM demand that the party be balanced, or achieve some theoretical level of optimization by a certain level?&nbsp; And, for the most part, my answer is, &quot;No.&nbsp; That would be a misuse of DM authority.&nbsp; While the DM has to have fun too, if the DM's fun depends on the players playing the character that he wants them to play to that degree, then the DM needs to reevaluate how he derives enjoyment from the game.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6011952, member: 4937"] You don't know how many times I've been in this argument on EnWorld. Half the time people are accusing me of saying that DM's have the right to abuse players. Half the time people are accusing me of saying that players have the right to abuse DMs. I've gotten to the point where I think this is a pretty meaningless argument, with goal posts that shift continually. I agree with you that the GM is a player as well. I'll even go so far as to say that the GM is the most important player in the game, with the bigger stake in the game, and the greater expectation of control over the game as a result of that. I'm a DM 95% of the time, and I assure you that I'm no door mat for anyone. However, what we are discussing here is the player's characters. A line has to be drawn over the DM's authority somewhere, because the players are players too. And for me that line is drawn hard and sharp at the player's characters. As the DM I control the whole world and this is my right as the DM. I make the world. I animate. I am every NPC in the world. The minute though I start asserting my authority over the PC's, I'm treading in dangerous waters. If the players don't have control over their own characters, then they don't have control over anything. Now, I think we can all agree that the DM can make reasonable demands on the sort of characters that a player creates. For example, the character should fit the setting. The question then is, how reasonable is it for the DM to demand that the players collectively play a synergistic party? Can the DM demand that the player be a cleric, because no one else is a cleric? Can the DM demand that you play a fighter, because the role of wizard is already taken? Can the DM demand that the party be balanced, or achieve some theoretical level of optimization by a certain level? And, for the most part, my answer is, "No. That would be a misuse of DM authority. While the DM has to have fun too, if the DM's fun depends on the players playing the character that he wants them to play to that degree, then the DM needs to reevaluate how he derives enjoyment from the game." [/QUOTE]

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