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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 9501435" data-attributes="member: 6779310">There's an urban myth that simpler rules  ≣ shorter turn times.(≣ means strictly equivalent to)While there is a correlation, it's not the strict equivalence many OSR evangelists claim.I find the much more complex D&D 4e played much faster than D&D BX (and I'm MUCH more experienced with BX), simply because 4E relies upon the grid, and that's much faster than TotM for me as both player and GM. Further, its reliance upon the specifically detailed abiliities, and keeping them low in number (most 4e powers replace earlier learned ones, not adding new slots), also speeds play, at the cost of discouraging narrative driven special cases.WEG SW, which is roughly equivalent complexity to BX, has much more math, slowing things dramatically. And the more foes, the more rapidly the math increases... not exactly linear, due to the increased number of comparisons needed, as the success roll is also the initiative for the action... This negates the ease of tracking damage levels. Oh, and given that damage in  SW 1e is a multiplication function...<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Book</td><td>Result</td><td>In actual 1e play</td><td>2e</td></tr><tr><td>2* DR < SR</td><td>No Effect</td><td>DR < 0.5×SR</td><td>DR-SR < 0</td></tr><tr><td>DR < SR</td><td>Stun</td><td>DR < SR</td><td>DR-SR in [0⋯3]</td></tr><tr><td>DR ≥ SR</td><td>Wound</td><td>DR ≥ SR</td><td>DR-SR in [4⋯8]</td></tr><tr><td>DR ≥ 2×SR</td><td>Incapacitated</td><td>DR ≥ 2×SR</td><td>DR-SR in [9⋯12]</td></tr><tr><td>DR ≥ 3×SR</td><td>Mortal Wound</td><td>DR ≥ 3×SR †</td><td>DR-SR in [13⋯15]</td></tr><tr><td></td><td>Instadead</td><td>DR ≥ 4×SR ¢</td><td>DR-SR ≥ 16</td></tr></table>DR = Damage Roll, SR = Strength+Armor Roll.† some GMs used 4  instead of 3, simply for ease of use on a 4-function or 5-function calciulator.¢ logical progression in 1e as played, but not designated in rules. 2e adds it as an explicit level of damage.2nd Ed WEG is somewhat more complex, but due to the maths, initiative set at start of combat and retained throughout, subtraction rather than multiplication in damage finding... it zips along, and thanks to the group rule, one can easily adjudicate larger combats by consolidation of groups into a single initiative slot, single action roll, and single damage roll on hit. In either edition of WEG Star Wars, There's an easy way to speed up play a good bit: no strength+armor; instead use 3 per die, and one per pip, to form a Resistance stat, and prefigure the thresholds...  one less roll per combat action.Rolemaster. if one has the tables handy, is about the same speed as AD&D, a bit slower than WEG SW 2e, and still faster than WEG SW 1e for groups of 4-6 PCs and suitable numbers of foes. The AL/CL book itself does not quality; having a photocopy ready of the table for that encounter is far more useful, so you can lay them out in front of you. Likewise, make the players look up their own to-hits.Burning Wheel, more complex than WEG d6 Star Wars (either), D&D BX, or even corebook only 4E, has the fastest combat I've run yet... it's one of 3 combat systems (and 4 conflict systems): Bloody Versus. State the goals of both sides, describe the methods, GM awards bonus dice for suitability of description and skill choice, one roll each side, resolved; winner gets their goal, loser takes one hit. Combat over, move on.The factors of per unit math, initiative handling, GM rules familiarity, ease of adjudication, and specific dice mechanics break the strict equivalence. As do shortcut rules present in some complex games for low importance fights... D&D 4e mook rules, BW's Bloody Versus, etc...</blockquote>

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