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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7240804" data-attributes="member: 29398">There's a significant difference between pointing out mistakes (always OK) with full-on rules-lawyering where a player is trying to twist the rules to gain some - usually undeserved - advantage (never OK).Some possible solutions here:1. Introduce a table rule stating that everything said by the players is being said by the characters, full stop, and that characters don't know anything about damage numbers or hit dice or CRs or anything like that.  Then firmly and harshly enforce this - every time you hear a number, as in "that'll do 8 points damage on average rather than 6", interrupt with "Your character doesn't know anything about numbers, so why is she talking about them?!"  You'll get some arguments, be warned: this isn't an easy process.  But it's worth it.2. Change up the monsters all to hell and gone, such that pretty much all player pre-knowledge becomes useless.3. Take some numbers knowledge away from the players to throw off their fine-tuning.  By this I mean do things like make magic item bonuses (or penalties!) hard to discover, throw in some variables (if you want to go whole-hog, bring back 1e's weapon-vs.-armour type and don't tell them, let them slowly find it out by trial and error), and so forth.  Caveat: anything you do here makes more work for you as DM.Yeah, this one's tough.  Simplest answer, if possible, is to feed them about four beers each before starting the game, so they'll be a bit more gonzo. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Lanefan</blockquote>

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