Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Goals of D&D: Putting Danger to the Sword
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="riprock" data-source="post: 2965688" data-attributes="member: 42506"><p>Having recently been told that I overemphasized the importance of killing and conquest in D&D, I've been looking at some old texts relevant to D&D. I couldn't find anything to substantiate the notion that treasure was supposed to be much more important than battle.</p><p></p><p>First, Gygax's Role Playing Mastery, p.26 -36:</p><p></p><p></p><p>If I had to sum up John Carter, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Elric, Conan, etc., I would definitely say that they faced down danger in exotic places, and they generally put danger to the sword. The text cited above puts a great deal of emphasis on getting <em>action and excitement</em> into the game.</p><p></p><p>Thus I'd say that the first goal of D&D is to battle against strange, mysterious dangers.</p><p></p><p>Next, White Box D&D, Vol. I, p.18:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Treasure is mentioned, but battle seems central. </p><p></p><p>I would submit that the White Box OD&D was still following the goals of a wargame, although it was adding the atmosphere of a "weird tale." The responsibility of the PCs is to battle much like pulp heroes would battle -- Elric would be "Chaotic Evil" whereas John Carter would probably be "Lawful Good." The battle must be exotic, weird, inspiring, and if possible chivalrous. Elric's battles tended to be exotic and baroque; Conan's were weird but chivalrous; John Carter was chivalrous to a fault, overshadowing the exotic backdrop of Mars. The goal of the game is daring battle in exotic settings.</p><p></p><p>Conversely, the game also seeks to keep the player characters alive, which means that although they must take risks, they must also calculate carefully and stay alive.</p><p></p><p>Role Playing Mastery:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So Gygax advises that the DM must defend the campaign of the players from the short-term ambitions of the players themselves, so that they don't spoil the fun. The battles must be testing grounds.</p><p></p><p>In all of the above, the emphasis seems to be on danger; I haven't found anything in the early D&D texts to suggest that treasure was nearly as important. I tend to think that treasure was an afterthought at first and then early excesses caused TSR to moderate treasure.</p><p></p><p>Gygax in the AD&D DMG (p.92):</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The above leads me to suspect that the original intent was to emphasize battle. Treasure was thrown in without much concern for the effect it might have on distracting players from glorious fights. </p><p></p><p>The ten-to-one gold to kill ratio in the "White Box" text might suggest that stealing is ten times more important than battle, but that strikes me as contrary to the "spirit." I'm not terribly familiar with the "White Box," so if anyone can offer guidance on issues like experience given for wandering monsters with no treasure, I'd be much obliged.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="riprock, post: 2965688, member: 42506"] Having recently been told that I overemphasized the importance of killing and conquest in D&D, I've been looking at some old texts relevant to D&D. I couldn't find anything to substantiate the notion that treasure was supposed to be much more important than battle. First, Gygax's Role Playing Mastery, p.26 -36: If I had to sum up John Carter, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, Elric, Conan, etc., I would definitely say that they faced down danger in exotic places, and they generally put danger to the sword. The text cited above puts a great deal of emphasis on getting [I]action and excitement[/I] into the game. Thus I'd say that the first goal of D&D is to battle against strange, mysterious dangers. Next, White Box D&D, Vol. I, p.18: Treasure is mentioned, but battle seems central. I would submit that the White Box OD&D was still following the goals of a wargame, although it was adding the atmosphere of a "weird tale." The responsibility of the PCs is to battle much like pulp heroes would battle -- Elric would be "Chaotic Evil" whereas John Carter would probably be "Lawful Good." The battle must be exotic, weird, inspiring, and if possible chivalrous. Elric's battles tended to be exotic and baroque; Conan's were weird but chivalrous; John Carter was chivalrous to a fault, overshadowing the exotic backdrop of Mars. The goal of the game is daring battle in exotic settings. Conversely, the game also seeks to keep the player characters alive, which means that although they must take risks, they must also calculate carefully and stay alive. Role Playing Mastery: So Gygax advises that the DM must defend the campaign of the players from the short-term ambitions of the players themselves, so that they don't spoil the fun. The battles must be testing grounds. In all of the above, the emphasis seems to be on danger; I haven't found anything in the early D&D texts to suggest that treasure was nearly as important. I tend to think that treasure was an afterthought at first and then early excesses caused TSR to moderate treasure. Gygax in the AD&D DMG (p.92): The above leads me to suspect that the original intent was to emphasize battle. Treasure was thrown in without much concern for the effect it might have on distracting players from glorious fights. The ten-to-one gold to kill ratio in the "White Box" text might suggest that stealing is ten times more important than battle, but that strikes me as contrary to the "spirit." I'm not terribly familiar with the "White Box," so if anyone can offer guidance on issues like experience given for wandering monsters with no treasure, I'd be much obliged. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Goals of D&D: Putting Danger to the Sword
Top