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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dark Dragon" data-source="post: 6271378" data-attributes="member: 1115">D&D 3.5 rules are alway good for a surprise, even after years of gaming... like the rule that a goblin NPC's CR is reduced by 2. Quote from the SRD 3.5:"Challenge RatingGoblins with levels in NPC classes have a CR equal to their character level -2."Why wondering? Well, last session our DM has set up a trap for the party. The party consists of seven PCs (6 humans and a halfling), all of level 3, 32-point-buy-built, mostly with two classes. The group was moving a caravan (three carts drawn by horses) on a passage through a dense forest when they spotted a humanoid creature tied to a pole amidst on the way. Assuming a trap, one PC advanced for investigation and found that there was a camouflaged pit in front of the pole with the humanoid (which turns out to be a dryad in a very sorry shape). As soon as he found out that it was a trap, he signaled the party to come closer, but in the same time goblins burst out of the foliage and attacked the party.The goblin team was made up of 6 "elite" warriors of about level 5, each with hp around 25 (very similar or more compared to the PCs), another 4 or 6 (?) warriors of level 1, and a goblin adept able to cast spells of level 2 (and leader of the goblin team). In addition, the adept was riding a large-sized spider that had two medium spiders as "guards".Aside that we did not roll constantly high <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> to hit AC 16 with ONE attack per round and PC, the party was split without much time to regroup properly, and was hindered by the foliage and the carts, the DM rolled much better (more rolls = more chances for GOOD rolls!), so that it was getting very close to a TPK. Our only luck was when those few PCs closest to the adept decided to focus their attacks on him despite being hit by the warriors, and took him out finally (to make it more complicated, the adept had cast Mirror Image). Then the remaining goblin team broke and fled: the large spider and 3 elite and 2 (or 3) low-level warriors were still capable of fighting and in a better condition than the party (with 2 PCs already brought to negative hp, the casters out of spells, 2 PCs with hp <10, and the scouting PC still being too far away to help and at 50% of his hp as well).So we discussed the encounter with the DM, and he said that goblin NPCs have a CR -2. Tierra's Encounter Calculator gave a "Pull out all the stops" aka "very difficult" according to the rule. However, if the DM would have pressed the encounter, the party would have been dead most likely, and it would be more fitting if you don't reduce the goblins' CR by 2, IMHO.Now I wonder if there is a GOOD reason to reduce the goblin CR by 2? Goblins are faster than halflings (30 ft.), have darkvision, +4 to Move Silently & Ride, but have -2 to STR and CHA, and +2 to DEX. Halflings have a speed of 20 ft., normal sight, -2 to STR and +2 to DEX, +1 to saves, +2 to Climb, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, and +1 to attacks with slings & thrown weapons. Is this worth a difference of 2 in CR???</blockquote>

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