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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dark Dragon" data-source="post: 6273708" data-attributes="member: 1115">Ah right, forgot that...Can you please give a link (SRD) or page in the books for that? I didn't find it but would like to tell it the DM <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The numbers are just off my mind, but they should fit regarding the encounter. So, the party has faced tougher foes than being adequate for the level, but gains less XPs compared to a fight with 6 goblin ftr 4 ?! That's why I'm wondering about any sense behind that NPC ruling of CRs.Yes, and the flaws of the CR system are more obvious at low levels. I've made two goblin melee guys. Both have the same stats for STR, DEX, and so on; hit points are not rolled (to keep statistics out), but average hp depending on the HD are used instead. And I strictly followed the NPC class CR rule from the SRD:As it does NOT say "goblins with exclusively levels in NPC classes", I assume that this rule applies even for goblins with levels in both PC AND NPC classes.Goblin 1: warrior 2/fighter 2, HD 2d8+2d10, 2*4.5+2*5,5 = 20 hp, 4 feats, saves: F+6, R+0, W+0, BAB +4, CR 2 (see SRD)Goblin 2: fighter 4, HD 4d10, 4*5,5 = 22 hp, 5 feats, saves: F+4, R+1, W+1, BAB +4, CR 4 <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />The difference of 2 in CR gives:+2 hp+1 feat+1 to Ref & Will-2 to Fort.Definitively worth it... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />The example shows that the NPC ruling of CRs is just ... er ... whatever... not good. So far, when I was DM, I was not really aware of that rule, and simply increased the CR by the amount of added class levels (being PC or NPC classes). But I'm dm'ing mostly moderate to high-level campaigns so it seems that it does not have that much of an impact anymore.Maybe not completely broken ALL the time, but yes, a DM needs to be careful about those CR numbers. This reminds of an encounter involving a balor:A balor's CR is 20. Now he faces a classical group of 4 adventurers, each at level 20. Should be a classical challenge, a TPK unlikely (unless the players are stupid or have really bad luck).Now in round one the balor uses "Blasphemy". The party is dazed for one round, no save. Next round, the balor summons another balor... Now one balor uses blasphemy every round, while the other hack'n slashes the party. So much for the CR system...</blockquote>

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