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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 9748850" data-attributes="member: 326">Before I get to my justifications, I just wanted to say a BIG, BIG thank you for running this greatly appreciated Just Passing Through.I know 'at face value' Nezha seems like overkill in this scenario, however, you are missing a few key rules tweaks (covered in the book obviously) I make that affect the game dramatically (not sure if you used the Weapon Damage Boost on the PCs - I note below you are certainly aware of it).1A. Weapon/Natural Damage gets a boost under God Rules.In God Rules magic weapons deal an extra die of damage per plus.e.g. A +3 Longsword now deals 4d8 base damage instead of 1d8+3. A +2 Greatsword would deal 6d6.NB. I also explain how this affects Energy (such as Flametongue), Slaying (such as Giantslaying) and Sharpness/Vorpal weapons in the book.So PC damage in these cases will, on average, be notably better.1B. Monster damage is derived from Hit Dice.For instance the Animal Lord's total Multiattack dice would be 60% of its Hit Dice (34 HD = 20 total dice of damage where d8's are the average, split across the number of attacks). This then parallels the Magic Weapon boost.Technically I am not suggesting reworking monster damage (though there are only a dozen CR 20+ official monsters so it wouldn't be too taxing to 'update' those).1A & 1B. With these changes in place things like Nezha's Damage Threshold become virtually a non-issue for characters within about 3 (Divine) ranks of play = a +12 CR difference. Epic Characters are treated as Divine Rank 0.2. Characters get one 'good' save per point of Proficiency Bonus.Therefore characters with +6 Proficiency Score (ie. All epic characters and above would use Proficiency Bonus for all saves)**If a PC took the Resilient Feat let them swap that for the usual Ability Score Boost.Without this change an enemy DC vs a Non-Proficient save becomes a virtual impossibility to save against.3. Challenge Rating and Throne Room battles.Nezha (at CR 24 here) is, by himself, a Hard Encounter for six Epic Tier (Divine Rank 0) characters (with the above changes to damage/saves), or three Divine Rank 1 or two Divine Rank 2 characters.Nezha in his home plane (where he will take Mythic Form and use Lair Actions), by himself, is a Hard Encounter for 10 Epic Tier characters.Adding his allies in this case is another +3-4 CR, meaning the full fight would be a Hard encounter for 18 Epic Tier PCs.Any deity has incredible resources and will not be encountered alone against an opposing force (particularly one of multiple characters). So the throne room battle with the extra guards.Realistically if you want to defeat a lone deity (not on their home plane) you need a party of 6 who are no less than 3 ranks lower. If you want to kill a deity on their Home Plane (where they take Mythic Form) then you probably want the party no less than 2 ranks lower. That's what my testing shows.1. Defeating Gods is not easy.2. Gods will not be encountered alone unless they choose to be.3. Permanently Killing a God (which grants tenfold XP...plus extra benefits from gaining their Wealth) is a massive undertaking likely beyond those not within 'touching distance' (ie. 2-3 ranks) of the deity itself.4. If a more powerful God invades the realm of a weaker God, the likelihood is that God will escape and/or summon more powerful allies.5. If weaker Gods (or Heroes) invade a realm of a more powerful God (as in this case), the likelihood is the God will just summon a few subordinate allies to stop it being 'ganged up on'.Without the Damage Increase I can see Nezha's Damage Threshold being a problem.NB....as explained in the book, characters can Combine Attacks to overcome an enemies Damage Threshold (ie. The First Slash dealing 20 damage might open a gap in the dragon's scales that a second attack can exploit - total damage to determine if the second attack overcomes the Damage Threshold.) Also note the same character can combine multiple attacks in this way.Can't recall offhand if I gave Nezha the Luck feat.But (again) explained in the book, Combat Reactions (up to Nezha's allowance of 4 in this case) trigger after one enemy has their Action. So it would have been: PC, Nezha Combat Reaction, PC, Nezha Combat Reaction etc. So even losing Initiative he will still get to use Combat Reactions early....mess with the bull you get the horns. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f608.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":devilish:" title="Devil    :devilish:"  data-smilie="29"data-shortname=":devilish:" />That's so Cool.Note all deities get Limited Wish at will (or Wish at Will from Demigod onward), so these Battlefield Removal type mechanics are only temporarily effective vs. immortals.Good ploy, Nezha is Vulnerable to Cold damage and he cannot mitigate that.Totally awesome!2d6+14 is terrible epic damage. But he could have used Combined Strikes on Nezha to slash and then slash the same spot (AC +2) again to overcome Nezha's Damage Threshold 30 with the second strike....I know that's not explained in the Preview. Dragon damage overall needs upped IMO.2d8+8 + 14 cold vs Nezha averages 31 which would beat his Damage Threshold but low rolls would change that.Damn Nezha is a cool, dynamic fight.I liked that Artificer's gumption.LOL! I love that Big Brick.Great fight.You don't want to be taking Crits from that spear...in hindsight it should maybe be +2 (dealing 9d10 damage).Again, just to note that would only be a temporary setback to an actual deity even one of Divine Rank 1 status.SPLAT!...at least the Ranger died rich.The allies were cannon fodder, but durable enough to last a round or two and get in some 'licks' as they say.Thanks. I tried to make it a fun fight.Fire away - although I think I covered most of my responses above.1. Well, in fairness you are taking the most extreme example a CR 24 Striker.2. Most high level casters I have played with take the feat that allows Advantage on Concentration Checks.3. Immortal Casters get to divide the damage amount by their Divinity Multiplier before factoring the Concentration DC.As it should be versus a CR +12/DR +3 opponent.Note that immortals have their own Mythic Form option so even Divine Rank 1 PC's have this 'safety net'.In all the high-level games I have played in, Martial Characters gravitate to weapons like Flametongue weapons because of the +2d6 extra damage. My change to Magic Weapon damage is not that big an increase.Flametongue Weapon = 1d8 + 2d6 = average 11.5+2 Longsword = 3d8 = average 13.5That multiplier applies to all dice (but not bonuses) with Divine Ranks.E.g. A Divine Rank 2 Quasi-deity Wizard deals x2* spell damage.*The multiplier is not based on Divine Rank even if they are sometimes the same.Nezha deals 12d10 + 30d10 on a Sneak Attack = 42d10 = 231whereas a Fighter with 4 attacks would deal 12d10 x4 (48d10) = 264while a Demigod Wizard using Disintegrate would deal 30d6+120 = 225.It is possible I made Nezha's spear too powerful, it should maybe only be +2 (given its two unique properties) which would make the damage 9d10 instead of 12d10.Casters also get the Multiplier when they gain Divine Ranks. As regards boosting epic casters to match this martial boost, I don't think its appropriate. Casters in 5E are universally seen as the more powerful class option at epic levels. This boost to martials is just bringing them level (IMHO).The Damage Threshold 'wall' is the superior mechanic for combat fluidity. As noted previously you can use the combined strike rule to overcome it.The Base Damage Threshold is 1/2 Hit Dice, it is designed to intentionally nerf "minion' damage outside of critical hits. Of course what constitutes a 'minion' will vary in each encounter.The allies are Suggestions and not calculated into the Challenge Rating of the encounter. I suggest they would be there because it makes sense the God would have guards.Epic Tier characters are not meant to be permanently defeating Demigods (or better) in their home plane. A party of 6 Epic Tier characters might just be able to defeat a lone Demigod outside their Realm.Its possible his spear should only be +2. Other than that I don't think things are overtuned - though I am very interested to hear your opinions after reading this post.I think you ran a CR 28 encounter (Nezha + Allies + Lair Traits) which my math tells me is a Hard Encounter for 10 Epic Tier PCs.Yes and equal to 10 on his home plane.In this case his allies counted as +3-4 CR.Factoring the allies that was a CR 27-28 encounter (so basically a +1 DR jump), +1 CR for Lair Actions and +3 CR for Mythic Form (the latter not used).So even without Mythic Form that was a Hard encounter for 10 Epic Tier PCs. CR 16/DR 1 Hard encounter for 2 Epic PCs CR 20/DR 2 Hard encounter for 3 Epic PCsCR 24/DR 3 Hard encounter for 6 Epic PCsCR 28*/DR 4* Hard encounter for 10 Epic PCsCR 32*/DR 5* Hard Encounter for 18 Epic PCs*Though I do not recommend using monsters +16 CR or +4 Divine Ranks higher or better as its too much of a power disparity.Thanks again for running this - VERY interested to hear your follow-up thoughts.Takeaways1. Seems like Nezha is a very fun, dynamic battle. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />2. His allies were not complete pushovers to be casually dismissed.3. Factoring Allies his Throne room fight is CR 28* (or CR 31** if he uses Mythic Form).*Approx 10 Epic PCs**Approx. 16 Epic PCs (18 if it was CR 32)</blockquote>

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