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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 9777570" data-attributes="member: 326">I don't see any reason why they would be considered anything other than an equivalent Challenge Rating in 5e. The Danava seem very like the Empyrean from 5e which was the 'old school' version of the Titan...even though Pathfinder has a few similar flavours of Titan whether good, neutral or evil.At CR 24 the Hekatonkeres is a watered down version of the Epic Level Handbook monster.Both look roughly on a par with my version of the Balor (detailed in the book as part of the Balor Bodyguard epic spell) which is only a CR 20 Quasi-deity per my rules*; but a decent bit tougher than the official Balor.So on the face of it the Pathfinder 2e 'Titans' are about Divine Rank 2 if we convert their stats to my system. However, if I was recreating them then the default Empyrean style-titan would be maybe equal to a Demigod, so CR 24.Obviously going by the mythology the Hekatonkeres should be at least CR 36.*Remember that from Challenge Rating 12-13 (approx. a Level 20 PC; albeit one halfway between going nova) each added Divine Rank = 4 Challenge Rating. BUT, the scaling is changed so that:+4 CR = x2 of lower CR+8 CR = x3 of lower CR+12 CR = x6 of lower CR+16 CR = x10 of lower CRSo 'my' CR 20 version of the Balor is equivalent to 3 Level 20 PCs.Arguably we could say a Level 20 PC "going nova" is temporarily more like CR 20, so I'm sort of splitting the difference (Base CR 12 vs. Nova CR 20 = average CR 16) but then dropping Challenge Rating down by 4 points because I want to make CR 12/13 the default for 20 Hit Dice.So on average a Level 20 PC is rated (by me) CR 12/13 with maybe high points hitting 20 but more like a 16 (overall). So just like the PCs, my monsters work out maybe 4 points higher to counterbalance PC power and bring everything back to a level playing field.</blockquote>

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