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Going beyond Grab?
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4471937" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>The math totally disagrees with you. The current option is too weak.</p><p></p><p>Example 1: 2 first level Fighters with 18 Str and 12 Dex, neither has Athletics or Acrobatics.</p><p></p><p>Chance to grab: 70%</p><p>Chance to escape: 45% with one attempt, 69.75% with two</p><p></p><p>Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for one round: 21.175%</p><p></p><p>If grabbed, chance to restrain as per your house rule: 21.75% * 55% = 11.65%</p><p>Chance to escape: 45% with one attempt, 69.75% with two</p><p></p><p>Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for two rounds: 3.62%</p><p></p><p>The chances of getting to Pin are not worth discussing.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Example 2: 2 first level Fighters with 18 Str and 12 Dex, both have Athletics.</p><p></p><p>Chance to grab: 70%</p><p>Chance to escape: 70% with one attempt, 91% with two</p><p></p><p>Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for one round: 6.3%</p><p></p><p>If grabbed, chance to restrain as per your house rule: 6.3% * 55% = 3.465%</p><p>Chance to escape: 70% with one attempt, 91% with two</p><p></p><p>Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for two rounds: 0.31% or less than 1 chance in 300</p><p></p><p></p><p>These house rules would never be used. Even a Wizard can easily escape without push/pull/slide help from his friends.</p><p></p><p>Example 3: 1 first level Fighter with 18 Str grabbing a first level Wizard with 10 Dex, 10 Con, and no skill:</p><p></p><p>Chance to grab: 75%</p><p>Chance to escape: 25% with one attempt, 44.75% with two</p><p></p><p>Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for one round: 42.1875%</p><p></p><p>If grabbed, chance to restrain as per your house rule: 42.1875% * 75% = 31.6%</p><p>Chance to escape: 25% with one attempt, 44.75% with two</p><p></p><p>Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for two rounds: 17.7775%</p><p></p><p>Against a super wimpy Wizard with no skill, the Fighter has about 1 chance of 6 in grabbing him for one round and restraining him for one round. Yeah, that would be used a lot. Not. <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>Bottom line: Skill vs. Defense is unbalanced. Two defensive attempts vs. one offensive attempt is unbalanced. Combined, it's the most worthless combat rules in the game system.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 4471937, member: 2011"] The math totally disagrees with you. The current option is too weak. Example 1: 2 first level Fighters with 18 Str and 12 Dex, neither has Athletics or Acrobatics. Chance to grab: 70% Chance to escape: 45% with one attempt, 69.75% with two Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for one round: 21.175% If grabbed, chance to restrain as per your house rule: 21.75% * 55% = 11.65% Chance to escape: 45% with one attempt, 69.75% with two Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for two rounds: 3.62% The chances of getting to Pin are not worth discussing. Example 2: 2 first level Fighters with 18 Str and 12 Dex, both have Athletics. Chance to grab: 70% Chance to escape: 70% with one attempt, 91% with two Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for one round: 6.3% If grabbed, chance to restrain as per your house rule: 6.3% * 55% = 3.465% Chance to escape: 70% with one attempt, 91% with two Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for two rounds: 0.31% or less than 1 chance in 300 These house rules would never be used. Even a Wizard can easily escape without push/pull/slide help from his friends. Example 3: 1 first level Fighter with 18 Str grabbing a first level Wizard with 10 Dex, 10 Con, and no skill: Chance to grab: 75% Chance to escape: 25% with one attempt, 44.75% with two Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for one round: 42.1875% If grabbed, chance to restrain as per your house rule: 42.1875% * 75% = 31.6% Chance to escape: 25% with one attempt, 44.75% with two Chance for this tactic to be successful for Fighter #1 for two rounds: 17.7775% Against a super wimpy Wizard with no skill, the Fighter has about 1 chance of 6 in grabbing him for one round and restraining him for one round. Yeah, that would be used a lot. Not. :lol: Bottom line: Skill vs. Defense is unbalanced. Two defensive attempts vs. one offensive attempt is unbalanced. Combined, it's the most worthless combat rules in the game system. [/QUOTE]
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