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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 4473839" data-attributes="member: 2011">Isn't the point of 4E that the math is supposed to work across all levels?Having to pick one of the weakest 21st level Str/Dex creature with no skill in the MM to illustrate your point only proves how useless the normal Grab / Escape rules are.The vast majority of monsters in the MM are not this lame. Look at the escape chances of the other 21st level monsters.Angel of Valor Legionnaire Minion 25%/44%Legion Devil Legionnaire Minion 100% TeleportGhaele of Winder 100% TeleportTormenting Ghost 100% PhasingFire Titan 35%/57% (~92% due to Double Attack)Wild Hunt Hound 50%/75%Marut Blademaster 100% TeleportGiant Mummy 15%/28%Dark Naga 25%/44%  (~37% due to Psycic Miasma)Deathpriest Hierophant 10%/19% (~55% due to Word of Orcus)Yuan-ti Anathema 100% Swarm of SnakesAnd this does not even consider the fact that PCs would not want to grab some of these monsters (like the Giant Mummy with Mummy Rot, or the Deathpriest Hierophant with Aura of Decay and Word of Orcus) and would want to keep away from them.You also do not consider the chance to grab the monster (some of these creatures have high Reflex, so they are hard to grab in the first place), the chance to restrain the monster (some have high Fort so are hard to restrain with your house rules), or the opposite concept of PCs escaping from monsters. Except for the Giant Mummy, your Fighter has 35% or less chance to grab any of these monsters in the first place.You only considered escape chances for a monster if grabbed by a PC. You dropped the rest of the analysis on the floor.Look at all of the rules, not just corner cases that appear on the surface to support your POV.Why would a Beholder float at PC height?And what about Sleep Ray? Telekinesis Ray? Fear Ray?Most of these monsters have a lot of ways to avoid Grab, so the tactic is still pretty lame when the Fighter gives up his Standard Action to use it.The facts do not support your POV.</blockquote>

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