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Message: <blockquote data-quote="l0lzero" data-source="post: 6900709" data-attributes="member: 6855137">The reason so many people reduce it to con saves is because it is physically taxing to try and stay awake beyond 24 hours, and the default rules do not include madness rules. If you wanted to make it more realistic (and only marginally more complex) you would have the player roll two saves, the first is a con save to see if you have enough energy to physically stay awake, and the second is a wis roll to see if you suffer any negative mental effects, upon failure, they are subject to either madness, or effects similar to the confusion spell, but this would still result in you having to come up with reasonable sleep deprivation mental effects, because it's not until you have been deprived of sleep for extended periods of time that you begin to hallucinate to the point that you would attack allies. I've stayed up far longer than 48 hours without chemical assistance (yay insomnia) and suffered only mild disorientation (loss of ability to keep track of time, dizziness, loss of coherence in thought, etc.), but we want mechanical effects, not stuff with no mechanical impact like "you forgot what you were talking about" or "you can't remember if it's dawn or sunset" etc.I like the idea of a wisdom save in addition to a con save, but I think maybe a mental exhaustion table would be the most realistic, but I would still keep the con save as a part of it.</blockquote>