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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Irda Ranger" data-source="post: 4003682" data-attributes="member: 1003">I stand by what I said, but let me clarify a bit.First, I agree with your contention that in 4E 15th level monsters were balanced against 15th level PC's with a "Charlie Brown's Christmas Tree" worth of 15th level items. I think that's right.But my point was that 4E has magical item assumptions, while 3E had magical item requirements.  In 3E you were required to hand out items because of the nature of the class design; if you wanted to maintain intra-party balance the melee characters needed their items.  It just didn't matter how much you futzed with the CR's; a high-level caster is merely inconvenienced by a lack of items, while a high-level Fighter is just frakked.I think the whole point behind "Fighters Have Powers" and "+6 Wands" is that each class is balanced against the other at any given level of magical item possession, from Zero to Monte <s>Cook</s>Haul.  The Powers balance out the Spells, and the Elder Wand balances out Excalibur.  No one has anything? No problem. Everyone's got Artifacts? No problem.Now, you'll still have to fiddle with the Monster Levels to keep challenges at the right level (a 15th level party with items is more potent than one without), but at least no one person within the group will consistently outshine all the others in an itemless situation.At least, that's my theory about what they're shooting for. It would be nice too if there was a little rule of thumb somewhere about how many "levels" items add to effectiveness, so that you know "No items? OK, treat these guys as -2 Lvl", but even if they don't I trust I'll figure it out eventually.</blockquote>

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