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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8614292" data-attributes="member: 7030563">I don't agree and I don't find that all to be exactly true when you add in the first level abilities you get.  Martial attacks with a 5th-level single class are very rarely twice what a 4/1 character is and sometimes it is not any higher at all.  Further because your proficiencies and your cantrips scale with character levels, you get buffs on those whether you multiclass or not.For example a 5th level Fighter Eldritch Knight using extra attack will generally do LESS damage than a 4th level EK/1st level Rogue using the same finnesse weapon and a blade cantrip: sneak+cantrip+weapon+dex/strenght+secondary damage >2xweapon+2xdex/strength.  Even if you assume no secondary damage at all the multiclass does more damage than extra attack with a 16 ability and is less than a half point less with an 18 ability.If he is not an EK, sure he will do more damage with extra attack but it is not twice as much when he is picking up sneak attack as a Rogue.  And to counter the marginal difference in damage, he is getting a skill, expertise in 2 skills and thieves tools.If the same fighter multiclasses to Wizard again he can take a cantrip that keeps him close in melee to the 5th level fighter (ahead if he gets secondary damage) while picking up awesome defensive spells like absorb elements and shield.  If he is a strength guy he can also pick up a ranged cantrip that will substantially increase his effectiveness in ranged attacks all in exchange for a very small increase in melee damage.Similarly the blaster warlock who multiclasses to something after 4th level will still get 2 eldritch blasts because character level is 5th.  So he loses nothing in at will damage.  He loses 3rd level spells known, but he still has the same 2 spell slots and if he is a blaster one of them is probably going to stay on hex anyway.  If he is a blade pact and not a blaster he gives up multiattack but keeps another evocation in exchange and still gets the 5th level damage boosts noted previously with the blade cantrips keeping him pretty close. He can go sorcerer or bard and get a bunch more cantrips, spells known as well as 2 more slots a day.  With sorcerer he can get subclass abilities too.A 4th level Rogue who multiclasses gives up uncanny dodge and 1d6 sneak attack.  If he goes to fighter he can now use a heavy crossbow (1 more point of damage) and get a +2 on attack rolls with it.  Alternatively with a fighter he can get a bonus to AC, or get a +2 damage through dueling or get some battlemaster dice, or blind fighting ...... He also gets 2nd wind and a bunch of weapon proficiencies and can wear a breast plate (or half plate if he can dela with the stealth disadvantage).If the 4th level Rogue multiclasses to wizard he can pick up the blade cantrips and actually do more damage than the extra 1d6 SA he would get (unless he was an AT) plus get reaction options that are better than uncanny dodge.Of course specifics matter and you need consider the character and what you are trying to do.  What I wrote above are solid examples I think where those builds do not lose out at 5th level by multiclassing.  There are some builds it is a really bad idea not to take 5th level (like a 4th level Ranger most of the time), but generally I find 4th level to be a good place to multiclass if your intent is a multiclass character and I have done it a lot.  A final caveat - you could argue it is not ever good to multiclass out of wizard at 4th level, but that has more to do with the power of the wizard class than it does the level and that argument, while valid, can be applied at any level for many Wizard builds.</blockquote>

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