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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DarkKestral" data-source="post: 2925096" data-attributes="member: 40100">Ok, I've got a problem with the current cleric, and divine casters in general. Divine casters under core get any spell on their lists, which also is supposed to include new spells found in additional allowed rulebooks, and can take a few domains to get spells that are primarily the purview of wizards. This sheer 'spell knowlege' means that in a game where spellbooks are not often found with new spells and wizards are unlikely to be able to get new spells from other wizards, clerics will have the largest spell lis. Granted, most will be buffing/debuffing spells, rather than the heavier focus on straight attack/defense that the wiz/sorc spells have, but depending on the campaign and the metagaming situation of the cleric, this can be an issue. Adding a d8 HD, armor proficiencies, shield proficiencies, and the turning class ability which is often used to power abilities which are often badly written, means that the cleric has quite a few advantages in core.As a result, I want to tone down the cleric a bit, and focus a bit more on the thing that makes divine casting interesting to me: domains and spontaneous spell conversions while keeping a largely preparation-based spell list. I also like the idea of making arcanists the masters of MODIFYING spells, but clerics a bit better on having access to a wide variety of spells without the need for a spellbook.I am considering essentially doing this:Clerics now get a d6 HD, and are proficient in their deity's favored weapon plus all simple weapons. If their deity's favored weapon is simple, they gain the weapon focus feat with that weapon, even if they don't otherwise meet prerequisites. BAB, auras, saves, skillpoints, spells per day, and class skills will be as the normal PHB/UA clerics. The cloistered cleric now gets the benefits as listed in UA, or the variant section of the SRD, but only has a d4 HD and loses the martial weapon proficiency/weapon focus feat. (The weapon proficiency is to make up partially for the loss of the armor, while remaining a bit closer to the 'fluff' descriptions as in the PHB of the cleric, and closer to how i want them for my campaign. I'm also considering giving them medium armor.)Turning: Turning is probably going to be removed, at least for my campaign. The world I'd be going for would have skeletons and the like as major enemies in some areas and turning just counters the 'undead hordes' bit if high-powered clerics can destroy undead with just a few words and a wave of energy that ISN'T a spell.Domain Access: Clerics, as they advance in level, will gain access to new domains. They may choose any domains allowed by their deity/alignment, as long as none of them are of opposed alignment. (for example, Good casters cannot choose Evil as a domain, and Lawful casters cannot choose Chaos as a domain. Characters who Neutral on an axis can choose to have an alignment domain, but must use the alignment domain of their turning abilities.) They begin with 2 domains at first level and gain a new domain at every 5th level of cleric, ending up with 6 domains at level 20, plus any bonus domains granted. This ability is not to be construed as being part of cleric spellcasting for purposes of PrC ability grants. (This way, clerics DO lose something if they want to PrC at higher levels. Since turning is not part of it anymore, they need something.. just like with sorcerors)Spell Knowledge: Clerics know a number of general cleric spells equal to the number of spells to those known by a sorceror of 4 levels lower, plus 2 orisons. (if I need to reword/rebalance  this, let me know, since this is my sore spot, I think)Spontaneous Domain Spellcasting: This ability replaces the standard ability to replace spell slots with healing or inflict X spells. Pick one starting domain. This domain becomes your 'spontaneous domain' with which you can replace spell slots on a spontaneous basis. This ability does not increase casting time. (e.g. you can quicken these spells)The War domain's granted power, since the previous version is now a class feature, will instead provide a bonus feat from this list that the character meets prerequisites for: Martial Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Armor Proficiency (medium), Armor Proficiency (heavy), Shield Proficiency or Tower Shield Proficiency. (I'm trying to go with the original theme, and make it a useful domain for war clerics to have at any level)New Feat: Domain Transferance-- Prereq: Divine spellcastingYou can choose to cast a divine spell in a divine spellslot not of the appropriate type at an increase of +2 in caster level.I may end up paring down the cleric spell list some, but other than that, I like the new cleric a lot more than the previous version. It feels more a 'servant of the people' and less 'divine avenger' which is a role that I think should be better left to paladins. I also would like to tone down the druid some, preferably by making it more of a 5-6 level casting class.Any suggestions/critiques? I'd like to know what others think. I'm trying to make it so that clerics aren't TOO gimped as fighters, so that they are decent as a backup for a melee fighter, but are still unlikely to want to be frontline fighters without taking class levels in PrCs or core classes that will hurt caster level or domain access.</blockquote>

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