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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4633286" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I tend to see it as good people tend to have different actions than evil people, although even that gives to much primary to the nature of the person compared to the action. I suppose though that certain personality traits can only really manifest themselves after some sort of training period where the personality trait is reinforced.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's true and I agree, but is cruelty a personality trait or an action? Could we speak of a person being cruel if they never did anything cruel? I don't think so. I think to speak of cruelty divorsed from action, we'd have to look at the motivating emotion that drove the cruelty, and then to the underlying personality trait that gave rise to that emotion. Can a good person be naturally 'mean' or 'short-tempered', even if their moral, ethical, and habitual nature causes them to act out this underlying nature in very different ways?</p><p></p><p>Can we imagine an mean 'good' person, whose actions might be mistaken by an observer for cruelty? I think that we can. We might imagine a very droll, tactless, blunt and blunt person, who always said what they thought was the unvarnished truth, was cynical, frequently sarcastic, and practiced 'tough love'. This person might at first seem quite cruel and heartless, but as their underlying motives where revealed why might find something entirely different. We might not say that this person had alot of charisma (although they might, as such a person might be very witty, which would make their actions seem all that much more cruel), but we couldn't necessarily claim that they were evil or even worked evil. We could easily imagine some rigid society whose forms and manners prevented the truth from being said, and this person's unconventionality served to get things important things said that might not otherwise be said or done.</p><p></p><p>Similarly, on first blush, we might suggest that a good person couldn't be stingy or miserly. But, again, I don't think that holds true either. I imagine some miserly shop keeper who was always stingy with his money, weighing every gram, cutting every corner, but who is quitely and with no fanfare supporting some humble but noble cause or who gives away everything he has hoarded after some catastrophe - his every savings having been horded up against just this exact eventuality. Again, we are imagining a person whose natural weaknesses of character aren't overcome in the usual but sense but rather are put to good service, and even made into virtues because of the underlying goodness of his desires.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's always been a continuim. Particularly for the morally complex alignments like 'lawful good' or 'chaotic evil', there is always I think a tension - whether it's Sturm Brightblade trying to reconcile living according to a code of honor with doing the most weal for the most people or Belkar trying to reconcile being continually destructive and treacherous with advancing his own personal interests.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 4633286, member: 4937"] I tend to see it as good people tend to have different actions than evil people, although even that gives to much primary to the nature of the person compared to the action. I suppose though that certain personality traits can only really manifest themselves after some sort of training period where the personality trait is reinforced. That's true and I agree, but is cruelty a personality trait or an action? Could we speak of a person being cruel if they never did anything cruel? I don't think so. I think to speak of cruelty divorsed from action, we'd have to look at the motivating emotion that drove the cruelty, and then to the underlying personality trait that gave rise to that emotion. Can a good person be naturally 'mean' or 'short-tempered', even if their moral, ethical, and habitual nature causes them to act out this underlying nature in very different ways? Can we imagine an mean 'good' person, whose actions might be mistaken by an observer for cruelty? I think that we can. We might imagine a very droll, tactless, blunt and blunt person, who always said what they thought was the unvarnished truth, was cynical, frequently sarcastic, and practiced 'tough love'. This person might at first seem quite cruel and heartless, but as their underlying motives where revealed why might find something entirely different. We might not say that this person had alot of charisma (although they might, as such a person might be very witty, which would make their actions seem all that much more cruel), but we couldn't necessarily claim that they were evil or even worked evil. We could easily imagine some rigid society whose forms and manners prevented the truth from being said, and this person's unconventionality served to get things important things said that might not otherwise be said or done. Similarly, on first blush, we might suggest that a good person couldn't be stingy or miserly. But, again, I don't think that holds true either. I imagine some miserly shop keeper who was always stingy with his money, weighing every gram, cutting every corner, but who is quitely and with no fanfare supporting some humble but noble cause or who gives away everything he has hoarded after some catastrophe - his every savings having been horded up against just this exact eventuality. Again, we are imagining a person whose natural weaknesses of character aren't overcome in the usual but sense but rather are put to good service, and even made into virtues because of the underlying goodness of his desires. It's always been a continuim. Particularly for the morally complex alignments like 'lawful good' or 'chaotic evil', there is always I think a tension - whether it's Sturm Brightblade trying to reconcile living according to a code of honor with doing the most weal for the most people or Belkar trying to reconcile being continually destructive and treacherous with advancing his own personal interests. [/QUOTE]
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