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Good/Evil vs. Law/Chaos
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4634508" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I agree and would in fact go further than that. Zelazny and Moorcock write characters that aren't terribly interested in working out complex systems of morality. In a work like Amber, Zelazny doesn't spend alot of time working out the philosophical differences between those native to Amber (representing Law) and those native to the Courts of Chaos. The two groups are highly anthromorphic, the locales not that dissimilar from the reality we are used to, and the two groups are really not at all dissimilar in outlook. For most purposes, Law and Chaos are simply tribal distinctions with little philosophical ground to separate them. </p><p></p><p>I think the designations Law and Chaos were originally adopted with much this sort of idea in mind, and no real attempt to work out a detailed internally coherent philosophical description was made. But, things that can be made to work in traditional narratives don't necessarily work in the simulationist narratives that RPGs rely on. Compared to regular literature, the cosmos of an RPG is examined in much more detail by its participants. </p><p></p><p>As I understand it, the attempt to use Law and Chaos as descriptors fell apart almost immediately. The descriptions of Law and Chaos that were in use quickly led to contridictions that the participants found distasteful or confusing. For example, the description of Law - orderliness, logic, etc. - meant that Mindflayers were Lawful - and hense on the same side of the universe's great philosophical conflict as Paladins. On the other hand, fairies and djinn, where clearly on the side of Chaos, and thus no matter how benevolent they were, were on the same side of the conflict as demons. </p><p></p><p>I suppose some people might have found that acceptable, but since a great many did not, it brought into being the two axis system that we have. Personally, I consider myself neutral with regard to law and chaos, and as such it would hardily surprise anyone that I consider it a non-descriptive and meaningless distinction (just as someone neutral with respect to good and evil might find them to be meaningless distinctions, for example see some of the philosophy expoused in Chronicles of the Dragonlance). But, since I'm required by my position as a DM to be impartial, I try to make the most of it and make as much meaning out of the terms as I can.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 4634508, member: 4937"] I agree and would in fact go further than that. Zelazny and Moorcock write characters that aren't terribly interested in working out complex systems of morality. In a work like Amber, Zelazny doesn't spend alot of time working out the philosophical differences between those native to Amber (representing Law) and those native to the Courts of Chaos. The two groups are highly anthromorphic, the locales not that dissimilar from the reality we are used to, and the two groups are really not at all dissimilar in outlook. For most purposes, Law and Chaos are simply tribal distinctions with little philosophical ground to separate them. I think the designations Law and Chaos were originally adopted with much this sort of idea in mind, and no real attempt to work out a detailed internally coherent philosophical description was made. But, things that can be made to work in traditional narratives don't necessarily work in the simulationist narratives that RPGs rely on. Compared to regular literature, the cosmos of an RPG is examined in much more detail by its participants. As I understand it, the attempt to use Law and Chaos as descriptors fell apart almost immediately. The descriptions of Law and Chaos that were in use quickly led to contridictions that the participants found distasteful or confusing. For example, the description of Law - orderliness, logic, etc. - meant that Mindflayers were Lawful - and hense on the same side of the universe's great philosophical conflict as Paladins. On the other hand, fairies and djinn, where clearly on the side of Chaos, and thus no matter how benevolent they were, were on the same side of the conflict as demons. I suppose some people might have found that acceptable, but since a great many did not, it brought into being the two axis system that we have. Personally, I consider myself neutral with regard to law and chaos, and as such it would hardily surprise anyone that I consider it a non-descriptive and meaningless distinction (just as someone neutral with respect to good and evil might find them to be meaningless distinctions, for example see some of the philosophy expoused in Chronicles of the Dragonlance). But, since I'm required by my position as a DM to be impartial, I try to make the most of it and make as much meaning out of the terms as I can. Agreed. [/QUOTE]
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