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Good Gaming Thread's Valiant Retirement (Signs to Further Pastures)
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<blockquote data-quote="Loonook" data-source="post: 3991305" data-attributes="member: 1861"><p><strong><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: DarkSlateGray">Good Gaming: Let’s Get Down to Business Part 1 The Opening Salvo, Hoover’s Principle, and A Little Taste of Fiction</span></span></strong></p><p></p><p>I’m sick and tired of mages lording it over us. Yeah, you can tell physics <a href="http://logo.cafepress.com/0/1221917.2111630.jpg" target="_blank">to sit down and shut up . . .</a> but that doesn’t make you better than the working schlubs out there. The guys who are swinging the battleaxes, making the diplomatic negotiations, perhaps even just shanking some poor commoner in an alley for some silver pieces and his hat. </p><p></p><p>But it doesn’t have to be that way. Wizards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Clerics . . . whatever flavor of magic (or psionics) you enjoy in your campaign is powerful, but you have to allow your fighter flag to fly from time to time. Without that, we’re all just hopeless. The intrinsic fallacy of the world is that the mage is all-powerful, all-knowing, and generally just spectacular beyond ken. And to an extent that thesis can be proven out. However, we’re not looking at the whole story as presented; rather, most of your average PCs are trapped beneath the Player and DM falsehoods outlined in Hoover’s Principle.</p><p></p><p>Hoover’s is one of the few things I actually brought out of all of those required ‘gifted’ courses your average too-bright kid has to take during long, slow, and painful high school lectures. My favorite teacher, a tiny Asian grad student paying his way by bringing us the Required Readings for the day, presented Hoover’s Principle every time we were forced to do some creative writing. Written broadly in masterful strokes across the board just before the start of the process, Dave would put up the words below and remind us that Hoover’s Principle destroys all narrative unless we stop it in its tracks. To paraphrase, Hoover states</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: Red"><span style="font-size: 18px"><span style="font-family: 'Franklin Gothic Medium'">Any Creative Effort Created In A Vacuum Sucks Harder Than Said Vacuum.</span></span></span></p><p></p><p>But, the corollary of Hoover’s is easy to forget but crucial; the vacuum is broken <em>only</em> if we put a conscious effort to breaking it.</p><p></p><p>I know, you have been coddled in your readings. Most geeks are, and we suffer as a hobby for it. Just because Tolkien defined the ‘laws’ of high fantasy, and Jordan wrote this, and Brooks did this, doesn’t mean we have to follow in their footsteps. Yes, the books can be entertaining, but it is an empty entertainment; you shouldn’t see the end coming, you should strive to see something new, something relevant in your situations and grow for them. </p><p></p><p>We need tropes, clichés, the shibboleth because they help to unite us. And unification is great . . . until it affects creativity. Look at the television industry. We live with its cycles (ooo! A new Bionic Woman!) over and over again. However, sometimes they make something which is better than the original (wow… Battlestar Galactica isn’t too bad, and better than the original). But what makes one project just lukewarm, and the other into something which can actually be watched and enjoyed?</p><p></p><p><strong>Perseverance, Originality, and Execution</strong>. P.O.E. for short, but we’ll get to that. With these three principles you can rehash, combine, chop and screw all sorts of wonderful characters, ideas, etc. into place and make yourself a new form. There are writers who visit old material and make it fascinating; there are producers who take dreck and make a real work of beauty, and there are actors who could be handed the greatest work of literature and make it into a veritable disaster of poor execution. </p><p></p><p>How does this apply to your game, and Hoover’s Principle? Think about it. Ever wonder about the rhyme or reason behind the setting? Maybe you haven’t… it isn’t a crime. But it’s poor divine mandate to go around and leave your setting in bits and pieces. You, the DMs, control that world like as unto gods. Players act as smaller, no less important forces in the shaping of the setting. If the player decides to alter his or her piece of the world they should have all rights, but we have to think about how both DM and Player interaction affect the narrative and the game, alongside how natural progressions affect said same.</p><p></p><p>What do I mean by Natural Progression? Well, it’s how the history and interactions of cultures, creatures, and the normal mucky muck of your average setting changes how the world works. There are ways that every DM deals with this, and some don’t deal with it at all. Personally, I think a light but direct touch is necessary for my own and my player’s sanity to keep the game going. </p><p></p><p>Why exactly, in these worlds of heavy magic, are we all using the same spell list? Why is there no experimentation, no delving into the depths of the mind and global knowledge to do some new stuff? Why are all the wizards out there using the same spells and not really advancing, and how exactly did every spell in the Compendium get brought forward into the limelight? How, for example, did every mage start packing those really nice and fancy spells from Complete Mage, or how did all the rogues start carrying around similar equipment?</p><p></p><p>It’s a lot of stuff to deal with at first. So be ready to press forward and get your answers from… yourself. When players begin asking to use all of these fanciful spells, you should find a way to incorporate them. Your mages should be able to Orb this and Disjoin that, but how did they come up with all of this spellcraft? Well, we may have an answer to that.</p><p></p><p>3rd Edition and the designers therein became obsessed with a generic aesthetic. Yeah, there are some ‘signature’ spells out there, some little twists and turns about. Some people who work out and got famous because they figured out a great way to link up mystic forces in a new and exciting pattern. This was to be helpful to your average player and DM, who wanted to develop their own setting. However, I find it sort of detrimental to the overall experience. There is so little desire in your average magic-user to put in his homework, travel to exotic locales, meet with the great minds of magic . . . if he can walk to the nearest magic shop and find the miraculous placement of 30 new spells in the shop window. It’s impractical, to say the least, to believe that this just occurs every time a splat comes out. Even so, there is a certain understanding on my side; players should be allowed to do some of the things they want.</p><p></p><p>But don’t then complain that said player, using 9 feats outside of core, a powerful PrC that he just sort of entered as soon as he got the chance, and 60% non-core spells is overpowering. Knowledge of these spells was a metagaming conceit by the DM in placation to the PC in question, and if there was no character development to get all of these fanciful things it makes for a very boring character design. The love of numbers not withstanding (I think we all like to crunch out a character or two in boredom), these monstrosities are in and of themselves ridiculous. Where does this no-account uneducated fiend come up with all of this power? Fiat, and that’s a bad proposition.</p><p></p><p>But there is a certain building of knowledge; cultures benefit each other. Individuals make new and startling inventions, and they become part of the global marketplace. Very simple ideas become manifest in some really amazing feats of strength, daring, and intellect all over our normal world. If you ignore this natural progression, you are in a way setting yourself up for these follies. </p><p></p><p>In short, define the roads your PCs walk on, both as a player and as a DM. It’s a cooperative game; though sometimes we want it to be competitive, it’s about making fun. However, when we complain that the rogues and warriors are held behind and are weaker, we establish a larger issue in the world itself; why are these guys so outclassed?</p><p>Nerds in the real world don’t automatically win fights, even if nerds get to bring their mac 10 and grenades with them, because usually the guys who have been in the situation bring weaponry and protection with them. Let me illustrate:</p><p></p><p><em>The smell was everywhere. The deranged shrieking of the thaumaturgist echoed off the ceilings of his cave lair. The newly-summoned demon, aching to be released on the foes set before him.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>“You’ll never leave this place alive! I command the very powers of the underworld! From the depths I can summon the fierce beasts of the Nine Hells to my aid!”</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>“Master . . . Master . . . “ the imp’s pathetic squealing was nerve-wracking to Sir Dwight, whose blade seemed to glow in nervous pulsing in his right hand. His shield was treated by the alchemist who had sponsored the trip, and mayhap it would catch the brunt of the spells if something wasn’t done <strong>quickly</strong> to stop this madman.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>“See, it speaks of me as it’s master! I have fought the tides of time itself to gain my wisdom! You will fall in awe at the majesty of the Great Ar…”</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The benefits of the solution were beyond expectation. A flask of fixed quicksilver, the powder of an asp . . . the old geezer never felt the press of the disenchanting blade upon his defenses. Sir Dwight sighed in relief as the rogue struck quiet and unexpected from behind. The would-be assassin rose to his feet, drawing his jewel-encrusted short sword from the corpse frozen mid scream and tipping a wink to the knight before turning to the summoning circle.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>“So… you’re the demon he called from the Deeps? How would you like to get some new work? I know a purveyor of exotic species, perhaps he could use a clerk with your expertise?”</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>“Well, I have always fancied a life as a kee…”</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>The priest’s dismissal spell was perfectly timed. Grinning as the glam of the potent potion wore off, she politely clapped to the adroit handling by the rogue of his quarry.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>“By Baas, I love it when they don’t see it coming. We’re here for the grimoire, right?” </em></p><p></p><p>Never, ever underestimate the power of a determined group. This is actually a narrative of a session I ran a few years back. It was one of the funnier death of a villain we had had before, so whenever I get to relate the story I get a little chuckle. The alchemist they had been working with (another fun NPC) had given them certain preparations which assisted them with their prey, and it really helped in the closing segments with the mage. However, in a lot of settings it would be considered inappropriate for such a death to take place; you see, mage’s get all the special treatment. </p><p></p><p>But with anywhere from a century to millennia (judging by some common 1st and 3rd party settings) of magic use observed, why do the mages get to have all the fun? No one worked on defeating these potent enemies, these hidden masters of the world? Much less learning ways to defeat the demons, undead, and dragons who can perform similar feats of daring? We’ll cover ways to deal with Natural Progression of this sort in the next article. From there, we’ll discuss some questions you should ask yourself about any setting you play or DM in, which may seem surprising to you. Hopefully, we’ll get a little more oomph out of our work there.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Loonook, post: 3991305, member: 1861"] [B][SIZE=3][COLOR=DarkSlateGray]Good Gaming: Let’s Get Down to Business Part 1 The Opening Salvo, Hoover’s Principle, and A Little Taste of Fiction[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B] I’m sick and tired of mages lording it over us. Yeah, you can tell physics [URL=http://logo.cafepress.com/0/1221917.2111630.jpg]to sit down and shut up . . .[/URL] but that doesn’t make you better than the working schlubs out there. The guys who are swinging the battleaxes, making the diplomatic negotiations, perhaps even just shanking some poor commoner in an alley for some silver pieces and his hat. But it doesn’t have to be that way. Wizards, Sorcerers, Warlocks, Clerics . . . whatever flavor of magic (or psionics) you enjoy in your campaign is powerful, but you have to allow your fighter flag to fly from time to time. Without that, we’re all just hopeless. The intrinsic fallacy of the world is that the mage is all-powerful, all-knowing, and generally just spectacular beyond ken. And to an extent that thesis can be proven out. However, we’re not looking at the whole story as presented; rather, most of your average PCs are trapped beneath the Player and DM falsehoods outlined in Hoover’s Principle. Hoover’s is one of the few things I actually brought out of all of those required ‘gifted’ courses your average too-bright kid has to take during long, slow, and painful high school lectures. My favorite teacher, a tiny Asian grad student paying his way by bringing us the Required Readings for the day, presented Hoover’s Principle every time we were forced to do some creative writing. Written broadly in masterful strokes across the board just before the start of the process, Dave would put up the words below and remind us that Hoover’s Principle destroys all narrative unless we stop it in its tracks. To paraphrase, Hoover states [COLOR=Red][SIZE=5][FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium]Any Creative Effort Created In A Vacuum Sucks Harder Than Said Vacuum.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] But, the corollary of Hoover’s is easy to forget but crucial; the vacuum is broken [i]only[/i] if we put a conscious effort to breaking it. I know, you have been coddled in your readings. Most geeks are, and we suffer as a hobby for it. Just because Tolkien defined the ‘laws’ of high fantasy, and Jordan wrote this, and Brooks did this, doesn’t mean we have to follow in their footsteps. Yes, the books can be entertaining, but it is an empty entertainment; you shouldn’t see the end coming, you should strive to see something new, something relevant in your situations and grow for them. We need tropes, clichés, the shibboleth because they help to unite us. And unification is great . . . until it affects creativity. Look at the television industry. We live with its cycles (ooo! A new Bionic Woman!) over and over again. However, sometimes they make something which is better than the original (wow… Battlestar Galactica isn’t too bad, and better than the original). But what makes one project just lukewarm, and the other into something which can actually be watched and enjoyed? [b]Perseverance, Originality, and Execution[/b]. P.O.E. for short, but we’ll get to that. With these three principles you can rehash, combine, chop and screw all sorts of wonderful characters, ideas, etc. into place and make yourself a new form. There are writers who visit old material and make it fascinating; there are producers who take dreck and make a real work of beauty, and there are actors who could be handed the greatest work of literature and make it into a veritable disaster of poor execution. How does this apply to your game, and Hoover’s Principle? Think about it. Ever wonder about the rhyme or reason behind the setting? Maybe you haven’t… it isn’t a crime. But it’s poor divine mandate to go around and leave your setting in bits and pieces. You, the DMs, control that world like as unto gods. Players act as smaller, no less important forces in the shaping of the setting. If the player decides to alter his or her piece of the world they should have all rights, but we have to think about how both DM and Player interaction affect the narrative and the game, alongside how natural progressions affect said same. What do I mean by Natural Progression? Well, it’s how the history and interactions of cultures, creatures, and the normal mucky muck of your average setting changes how the world works. There are ways that every DM deals with this, and some don’t deal with it at all. Personally, I think a light but direct touch is necessary for my own and my player’s sanity to keep the game going. Why exactly, in these worlds of heavy magic, are we all using the same spell list? Why is there no experimentation, no delving into the depths of the mind and global knowledge to do some new stuff? Why are all the wizards out there using the same spells and not really advancing, and how exactly did every spell in the Compendium get brought forward into the limelight? How, for example, did every mage start packing those really nice and fancy spells from Complete Mage, or how did all the rogues start carrying around similar equipment? It’s a lot of stuff to deal with at first. So be ready to press forward and get your answers from… yourself. When players begin asking to use all of these fanciful spells, you should find a way to incorporate them. Your mages should be able to Orb this and Disjoin that, but how did they come up with all of this spellcraft? Well, we may have an answer to that. 3rd Edition and the designers therein became obsessed with a generic aesthetic. Yeah, there are some ‘signature’ spells out there, some little twists and turns about. Some people who work out and got famous because they figured out a great way to link up mystic forces in a new and exciting pattern. This was to be helpful to your average player and DM, who wanted to develop their own setting. However, I find it sort of detrimental to the overall experience. There is so little desire in your average magic-user to put in his homework, travel to exotic locales, meet with the great minds of magic . . . if he can walk to the nearest magic shop and find the miraculous placement of 30 new spells in the shop window. It’s impractical, to say the least, to believe that this just occurs every time a splat comes out. Even so, there is a certain understanding on my side; players should be allowed to do some of the things they want. But don’t then complain that said player, using 9 feats outside of core, a powerful PrC that he just sort of entered as soon as he got the chance, and 60% non-core spells is overpowering. Knowledge of these spells was a metagaming conceit by the DM in placation to the PC in question, and if there was no character development to get all of these fanciful things it makes for a very boring character design. The love of numbers not withstanding (I think we all like to crunch out a character or two in boredom), these monstrosities are in and of themselves ridiculous. Where does this no-account uneducated fiend come up with all of this power? Fiat, and that’s a bad proposition. But there is a certain building of knowledge; cultures benefit each other. Individuals make new and startling inventions, and they become part of the global marketplace. Very simple ideas become manifest in some really amazing feats of strength, daring, and intellect all over our normal world. If you ignore this natural progression, you are in a way setting yourself up for these follies. In short, define the roads your PCs walk on, both as a player and as a DM. It’s a cooperative game; though sometimes we want it to be competitive, it’s about making fun. However, when we complain that the rogues and warriors are held behind and are weaker, we establish a larger issue in the world itself; why are these guys so outclassed? Nerds in the real world don’t automatically win fights, even if nerds get to bring their mac 10 and grenades with them, because usually the guys who have been in the situation bring weaponry and protection with them. Let me illustrate: [I]The smell was everywhere. The deranged shrieking of the thaumaturgist echoed off the ceilings of his cave lair. The newly-summoned demon, aching to be released on the foes set before him. “You’ll never leave this place alive! I command the very powers of the underworld! From the depths I can summon the fierce beasts of the Nine Hells to my aid!” “Master . . . Master . . . “ the imp’s pathetic squealing was nerve-wracking to Sir Dwight, whose blade seemed to glow in nervous pulsing in his right hand. His shield was treated by the alchemist who had sponsored the trip, and mayhap it would catch the brunt of the spells if something wasn’t done [b]quickly[/b] to stop this madman. “See, it speaks of me as it’s master! I have fought the tides of time itself to gain my wisdom! You will fall in awe at the majesty of the Great Ar…” The benefits of the solution were beyond expectation. A flask of fixed quicksilver, the powder of an asp . . . the old geezer never felt the press of the disenchanting blade upon his defenses. Sir Dwight sighed in relief as the rogue struck quiet and unexpected from behind. The would-be assassin rose to his feet, drawing his jewel-encrusted short sword from the corpse frozen mid scream and tipping a wink to the knight before turning to the summoning circle. “So… you’re the demon he called from the Deeps? How would you like to get some new work? I know a purveyor of exotic species, perhaps he could use a clerk with your expertise?” “Well, I have always fancied a life as a kee…” The priest’s dismissal spell was perfectly timed. Grinning as the glam of the potent potion wore off, she politely clapped to the adroit handling by the rogue of his quarry. “By Baas, I love it when they don’t see it coming. We’re here for the grimoire, right?” [/I] Never, ever underestimate the power of a determined group. This is actually a narrative of a session I ran a few years back. It was one of the funnier death of a villain we had had before, so whenever I get to relate the story I get a little chuckle. The alchemist they had been working with (another fun NPC) had given them certain preparations which assisted them with their prey, and it really helped in the closing segments with the mage. However, in a lot of settings it would be considered inappropriate for such a death to take place; you see, mage’s get all the special treatment. But with anywhere from a century to millennia (judging by some common 1st and 3rd party settings) of magic use observed, why do the mages get to have all the fun? No one worked on defeating these potent enemies, these hidden masters of the world? Much less learning ways to defeat the demons, undead, and dragons who can perform similar feats of daring? We’ll cover ways to deal with Natural Progression of this sort in the next article. From there, we’ll discuss some questions you should ask yourself about any setting you play or DM in, which may seem surprising to you. Hopefully, we’ll get a little more oomph out of our work there. [/QUOTE]
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